Friday, November 30, 2018

Fidelity is a straight thing

Not just behaviorally, but morally as well. From Reuters-Ipsos, the percentages who do not say it is important "for your friends and family to be faithful to their spouses":


Respondents are not just talking about themselves, they're describing their broader social circles. Same-sex marriage was from the beginning about tearing down the pair-bonded nuclear family structure that, among other things like maximizing the number of men with genes in the game, allowed for social trust to accumulate to levels unlike anything the world had ever seen before or will likely ever see again.

The otherkin are even worse. With buggers, it's pathogens and neoteny. With the 141-genders crowd, it's full-blown mental illness as cause celebre.

Since we're talking about civilizational sappers, the percentages who say marital fidelity is not important, this time by race:


"Natural conservatives", ha!

Heritage America, why didn't you fight for yourself?

31 comments:

Anonymous said...

Republicanism is rigged against conservatives because it's infinitely easier for a leftist to impersonate a conservative than a conservative to impersonate a leftist. Lots of RINO's, no DINO's. A sex cultist can pretend to be a Catholic, but a Catholic cannot pretend to be a sex cultist. This is so obvious it is an insult to even the most modest intelligence to have a political system that doesn't account for this. The signaling game that takes place in elections is inherently skewed in favor of the left, even when the overwhelming majority of the population is conservative. Their representatives aren't, because they are chosen by election rather than the truly democratic sortition. The signaling contest of elections is ruined by lies, but they are predictable lies in that the left always has the inside track. Cthulhu always swims left.

Monarchy would be the most democratic system; a king is just a random guy born to be a king, truly representative of his people, and he isn't going to go power tripping as severely as a newly chosen adult sortition representative. Western republics are essentially aristocracies, neither democratic nor noble, and sexual perversion has always been associated with this class.

On top of being structurally rigged, elections are often faked anyway just as a demonstration of elite power. They don't even have to be fake, but it shows who's really in charge when they are, and it demoralizes a confused population that knows no other way of politics. Much of the population doesn't even care that it is being cucked by aristocrats motivated only by a hatred of monogamy.

Monogamous "beta males" (civilized Westerners) are already overwhelmingly traditional Christians and absolutely excluded from the elite. They have been excluded for centuries. Republics inherently exclude nice conservatives who play fair, but this was kept hidden for a long time thanks to the frontier. There is no frontier now, and the true nature of the state now makes itself known. We need either a new system of politics or something being revived from the 17th century, and probably even earlier.

We need a god emperor.

Jig Bohnson said...

I don't think it is important for my friends to be faithful to their spouses. Why should I care? Furthermore, in a few cases their wives are total cunts, and I would be glad if they got out of there. And they were my friends before they married those succubuses so I choose loyalty to friendship over loyalty to the other half.

So I would answer that poll question in the way you are implying would indicate that I am bad for civilization. I think you need to readjust your conclusions.

Anonymous said...

"Heritage America, why didn't you fight for yourself?"

What is Heritage America? It's not really white people, is it? It's Anglo-Saxon and some German. This demographic has been more or less swept away a long time ago. But if you want to know why people aren't fighting for themselves, it's the same reason every tribe doesn't coalesce to fight invaders. The primary enemy in the rivalry is the other tribe. So if one tribe can make use of the invaders to ruin the other tribe, they will. In the modern case, it's the urbanite tribe vs. the rural tribe. The urbanite tribe's primary interest is to weaken the rural one.

Audacious Epigone said...

Anon,

A black, black drink with a white pill at the bottom. Barring a CRISPR save, the current system is going to crash. It's from the chaos of the crash that a new order emerges--Sulla, Caesar, Diocletian.

Jig,

Why'd you let them marry vampire harlots? If your friends don't steer you away from bad life partners, who is going to?

Audacious Epigone said...

Anon,

Will the cold cultural civil war—which is really more of an act of aggression by one against the other—between good whites and badwhites cease before it’s too late? Everyday it seems as though a collapse would be our best chance. Not a full SHTF mad max collapse, but a severe financial recession brought on by a dollar implosion.

Gabriel M said...

Right so 86.6% of Whites, 79.7% of Blacks, 81.1% of Wetbacks, 84.2%, of Asians, and 79.2% of Jews agree that it's wrong for Matthew Heimbach to shtup his wife's mother. Crushing majorities. Good news.

Seriously, though, what do you think this proves? I'm personally shocked that 75% of gays think fidelity is important. Perhaps this is a parallel to dumb/criminal fraction theory. The vast majority of both gays and straights are basically normal, but the difference between 3/20 of the population being degenerates and 1/4 completely transforms the whole society.

All in all, though, I'd say that's a white pill of sorts.

Audacious Epigone said...

Gabriel,

That changing definitions or standards to accommodate a group or groups preciously excluded from an organization or institution results in a in said organization or institution resembling more the entire suite of characteristics—not just the one(s) in question that led to the exclusion—of the previously excluded group(s) than before they were permitted membership.

IE allow immigration from Mexico, country will more resemble *everything* about Mexico, allow women in combat and *every* aspect of combat units will become more feminized, etc.

Nothing surprising, but extremely important (if predicatable to most reading here)

Audacious Epigone said...

previously not preciously

Jig Bohnson said...

Why'd you let them marry vampire harlots?

AE you know how people are.

Brett baker said...

You don't need social trust if you think the government is going to take care of everything. You'll wonder why things are dysfunctional, but as long as the EBT card works, no real problem.

Jay Fink said...

I wish monogamy was strictly enforced and that we could destroy the lives of spouses who cheat. This is the only way beta males would have a fair shot to have a family and invest in society.

My impression is our culture has shited to defacto polygamy. Yet there is something from pop culture that is confusing to me. Back in the 70s and 80s when marriage was more of an institution than today there were many R&B songs sung by females with the theme of having sex with a married man because he is the hottest lover. Some examples are Diana Ross "Upside Down" and Shirley Murdock "As We Lay". There were many more. Today no such songs exist and if they did they wouldn't be accepted. How can this be if we are moving towards polygamy? My only guess is marriage has become so rare among blacks that few could relate to the subject matter anymore.

216 said...

o/t

Where the Blue Banana fails, Outer Hajnal succeeds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Andalusian_regional_election

VOX far outpolls its expectations, finishing with (11%) out of a presumed 6%, in the most left-wing region of Spain. No dispute that this is a backlash to the Afro-Muslim invasion that has streamed into Spain since being blocked from Italy.

Ja D said...

Interesting data, not surprising.

Jig Bohnson said...

I wish monogamy was strictly enforced and that we could destroy the lives of spouses who cheat. This is the only way beta males would have a fair shot to have a family and invest in society.

This is a strange comment. Marital infidelity is far from the primary reason why beta males are being denied the opportunity to have a family and descendants. The main cause among middle and upper classes is single women's entitlement and hypergamy, and their absurd belief that their very own famous athletic billionaire man is waiting just around the corner, coupled with relentless messages from media, peers, and now especially social media that they are amazing, men are worthless, and they shouldn't "settle" for anything less. Among lower classes the main cause is that getting knocked up as a teenage or slightly older single mom has become the default.



Anonymous said...

The only people who are against the sexual revolution are weak men who cannot get any. Men need to step up and make themselves worthy of female attention.

216 said...

O/T

JCS public coup threat No.3 incoming

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1069584730880974849

This is the kind of triangulation I want to see more of. Like it or not, leftists like Gabbard and AOC are beloved in my generation. Slashing the Pentagon means more dollars for a revival of the "public option" in health insurance.

aNanyMouse said...

@ Jig
Spot on about "entitlement and hypergamy".
I'll just add: the popularity of misleading books like Sherry Argov's "Why Men Love Bitches", and the growth of divorce Courts' rep for being kangaroos vs. men.
Very few Betas will take risks on really Bitchy wives, esp. if the result will likely be getting hosed in a divorce.

216 said...

Anon,

You cannot out-Beta the state or the transnational corporation when it comes to provision. Only a minority of men can hold alpha status, though society could be structured to give males a higher social standing, most men would still be beta.

Ananymous,

I my UMC private high school peer group, I think only two or three of my peers (class of ~105) are either engaged or married. Among my working class relatives and acquaintances, divorces and single parents are disturbingly common. Shotgun marriages also seem to have disappeared, marriage only seems to happen after a couple has had a second child or has been together for several years.

The only "teen pregnancy" I encountered was someone that had a kid at 19, an anecdotal confirmation of the statistical decline (free birth control, MTV de-glamorization)

Wrt to infidelity, the fear of being cucked is a major deterrent for Beta males to get married, for fear of getting hosed in the divorce and paying child support for a kid that isn't biologically yours. The cultural legacy of manosphere tropes is much larger than the small number of active participants. I agree that it isn't the leading reason why Betas *can't* get married, as most "carousel riders" still want to marry after hitting the "Wall". But it is a leading reason why Betas *won't* get married.

Jig Bohnson said...

@216

I might be slightly older than you, but my experience with UMC peers and family, UC colleagues, working class former high school chums, etc., is that basically anyone who really wanted to get married and have kids, male or female, pretty much did. They might not have married who they thought they deserved, and a few got divorced, but that's now it eventually churned out for those who wanted it.

I have never encountered in meat space anyone considering divorce rape as a serious enough impediment to actually stop them from getting married, even someone who had a lot to fear (dude with extremely high income and stay-at-home-aspiring bride, and yes they got divorced and yes he is paying). In my experience this manosphere trope hasn't penetrated meat space very much.

I can only think of a few examples of men who wanted to get married and have a family but didn't at all, and they are the classic example of extreme beta. They probably would have achieved their goal in generations past, but the marketplace is more unforgiving now for men.

So in my experience what is happening is that:
a) most eligible men and women in the UMC and up are eventually marrying
b) however on their way to that outcome the desirable women are having a lot of sex with alphas while betas fight over the scraps
c) The delay of marriage among this group is causing a slight dysgenic effect
meanwhile:
d) In the MC and below the women are having kids out of wedlock
e) and then eventually marrying either the father of one of those kids or a man who is a father of some other kids
f) Then getting divorced
g) rinse repeat, maybe
h) The biological fathers of those kids skew alpha and this is a significant dysgenic effect (if you like beta traits such as responsibility and conscientiousness)
i) overall the generational turnover is much faster for the MC and below than for the UMC and up, and this has a significant dysgenic effect


216 said...

Jig,

What I have seen IRL has been males who were the children of divorced parents swearing off marriage due to the impact. Fear of losing assets due to divorce appears much less common than people fearing child support payments, but usually that just leads to use of contraception or unknowingly going mgtow; rather than avoidance of marriage in favor of cohabitation.


I know of two working class men that were "pregnancy trapped" and neither are currently with the mother. I actually do know of one "shotgun marriage", the guy ended up having two additional children with her, but collapsed in a flaming divorce. IIRC, he also had difficulties with his own parents.

Fwiw, I'm 25, so unless a couple met during undergrad it's not surprising that there aren't many marriages yet, I think the UMC average age is around 27.

Anonymous said...

It's interesting that the two minority groups with lower adultery rates than Whites are also less likely to judge adulterers.

White people are simultaneously more likely to cheat on their husband/wife and more likely to condemn others who cheat on their husbands/wives. This isn't a good look. I look down on Blacks and Hispanics but at least they are being logically consistent. Meanwhile the Asians and Jews are not cheating on their husbands/wives but also refraining to judge people who do cheat.

216 said...

o/t

if she breathe...

https://twitter.com/alessabocchi/status/1069572627214286848

Is she a subversive, yup. But she's hot so people don't see it. The point about foreigners is in error, the Italian number includes a considerable number of EU migrants like Romanians. The Finland number doesn't include the refugees that Finland has naturalized and their descendants. I'd assume censuses are unable to count illegals.

Also worth noting that Italy has the same fertility rate as Japan, where the "austerity" has been nowhere near as severe, and the manufacturing base remains intact. Japan also beats Taiwan, Macau, South Korea and Singapore in TFR.

Audacious Epigone said...

Jig,

If we changed the question to account for the happiness of the marriage the results would probably be modestly different but in polls like this we're getting at a general ideal.

Brett,

Right, the government is the ultimate cucked beta. He doesn't care if you cheat, in fact he's happy for you to do so!

216,

Heh, I'd love to see a military coup attempt made. A few generals who haven't fired a gun since the Carter Administration trying take over the federal government would be so doomed from the beginning that it would be pathetically humorous more than anything else.

Anon,

According to the GSS there is virtually no difference between white Jews and Gentiles when it comes to infidelity. By class, Jews are considerably more likely to cheat than non-Jewish whites are. Those without any religious affiliation are the most likely to cheat, and those are disproportionately ethnically Jewish.

216 said...

AE,

Remember this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqAK3nRZskc

JCS has, they were the ones that planned it. If (when) Trump pulls a Jackson/Lincoln, this is what's coming. Fwiw, the Turkish JCS were all Erdogan loyalists and resisted the coup supported by their CIA-Gulen supporting juniors.

Corvinus said...

Anony at 12:17 a.m.

"Monarchy would be the most democratic system; a king is just a random guy born to be a king, truly representative of his people, and he isn't going to go power tripping as severely as a newly chosen adult sortition representative."

Ever hear of Louis XVI? Richard II? Ivan IV? Monarchial rule is NOT a modern viable option.

"On top of being structurally rigged, elections are often faked anyway just as a demonstration of elite power."

That would be Fake News.

"We need either a new system of politics or something being revived from the 17th century, and probably even earlier. We need a god emperor."

Who is this "we"?


Jig Bohnson...

"I don't think it is important for my friends to be faithful to their spouses. Why should I care?"

With that attitude, you are only promoting dysgenic behaviors. Seriously, you have a duty to your buddies to show them the proper way.

"however on their way to that outcome the desirable women are having a lot of sex with alphas while betas fight over the scraps"

Today's "betas" aren't "fighting for scraps". They are banging and marrying.


216...

"Wrt to infidelity, the fear of being cucked is a major deterrent for Beta males to get married, for fear of getting hosed in the divorce and paying child support for a kid that isn't biologically yours."

It's a deterrent for some men.

"I agree that it isn't the leading reason why Betas *can't* get married, as most "carousel riders" still want to marry after hitting the "Wall"."

LOL, men AND women hit this wall. Look at Vox Day and his wife. How the mighty have fallen.

Audacious Epigone said...

Corvinus,

men AND women hit this wall

That physical appearance is more important in determining female sexual attractiveness than in male sexual attractiveness means that while true, the impact is worse for women.

Corvinus said...

"That physical appearance is more important in determining female sexual attractiveness than in male sexual attractiveness means that while true, the impact is worse for women."

You mean physical appearance is important in determining both male and female sexual attractiveness. Due to a host of factors--genetics, diet, exercise, habits--men and women either maintain those looks, gradually have their looks decline as they age...or become a shell of their former self.

It seems that in jolly old England that men are more obsessed with looking good than women.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/jan/06/body-image-concerns-men-more-than-women

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/fashion-and-style/10814392/Men-have-never-been-so-preoccupied-by-their-appearance.html

Audacious Epigone said...

Corvinus,

That sexual convergence driven by culture is assaulting healthier sexual dimporphism is a standard complaint on this side of the divide. That's a bug, not a feature.

Corvinus said...

Indeed, Generation X and millennials replaced historically rigid gender divides with more egalitarian relationships. Whether this process is an "assault" on "healthier sexual dimporphism" is up for spirited debate.

Anonymous said...

Interesting that the bisexual response is so close to the hetero number. This is likely due to most bisexuals being women, with a few closeted gays raising the number.

Anonymous said...

@audacious

We don't have Ned Flanders types in my neck of the woods. Where I live, there are two types of Caucasian men: white yuppie atheist liberals who drink artisan coffee, do yoga, and think polyamory is cool, and Jewisih yuppie liberals who drink artisan coffee, do yoga, and are slightly less interested in promiscuity.

At the local universities everyone knows that the Subcontinentals never party, binge drink, sleep around or neglect their studies. 10% of the East Asians do, along with 30% of the Jews and 50% of the Whites.

A Jewish husband is still a marginally safer bet than a White husband around here.