Wednesday, February 14, 2018

Eugenic Mormons

The following graph compares mean number of children, by intelligence as measured by Wordsum*, among whites (n = 13,492), among blacks (n = 3,858), and also among Mormons (n = 342). To avoid language fluency issues, only those born in the US are considered:


This is astounding. Are Mormons the only group in the US of significant size that breeds today like the English of centuries ago did?

Not only has modern contraception decoupled fornication from procreation, it has also severed the relationship between intelligence and reproduction likely unprecedented in human history.

We rediscover God, we CRISPR into level 99 ubermensches, or we eventually welcome Idiocracy.

Parenthetically, this isn't the only instance that the severe dysgenic trend among American blacks has come up. It's markedly more pronounced than the trends for non-black groups are. Since IQ itself remains a mostly taboo topic, it's no surprise that black dysgenics are never invoked as a potential explanation for worsening levels of black dysfunction over the last couple of generations.

GSS variables used: BORN(1), ETHNIC(7-15,18,19,21,23-27), RACE(2), OTHER(61,64), CHILDS, WORDSUM(0-5)(6-7)(8-10)

* The total population distribution under this classification breaks down as 36%/40%/24% low/middling/high intelligence. This is as close to a 33%/33%/33% split as is attainable given the Wordsum's 10-point scale.

55 comments:

akarlin said...

This is indeed very encouraging and surprising.

The main "problem" with religious high fertility is that they are duller than average. But if reproduction trends within those groups are themselves highly eugenic, then that would seem to be a null point.

Assuming this applies to people other than Mormons. It would be interesting to see if this holds e.g. within Orthodox Jewry.

akarlin said...

Some more things to consider: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/mormon-fertility-might-be-eugenic/

Rob said...

Quite useful information , Thanks a lot for sharing this, It helps to my understanding. Especially to the religious people. More post and updates to you, Great thanks.

Alliumnsk said...

Sorry for being negative... Have you used same cutoffs for whites and blacks?

...evolution already has a means to counter this effect -- when some group has grew too retarded the brighter ones come and genocide them.

Anonymous said...

This is NOT some Mormon trait, they are simply known for keeping
their children out of public schools. If you kept your children
out of public schools and homeschooled them they would have similar
higher scores. If you could find homeschooled children scores
I would bet money that they would show similar levels compared
to either whites or blacks in public schools.

UPDATE found one in 5 seconds, proving my statement even though
I knew I was right all along compared to this bs Mormonite propaganda.

"The findings showed that while public school kids would test at grade levels, homeschooled children far above grade level. Generally, the homeschooled children would perform at least half a grade ahead when it came to math and two grades ahead when it came to reading. "
http://www.businessinsider.com/structured-homeschool-canada-2011-9

Anonymous said...

Alliumnsk, go kill yourself today you God damned Antichrist atheist Darwinite cultist.

Ben Kurtz said...

Any stats for Hispanics, Asians and Jews?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, all that data I've seen indicate that the vast majority of Mormons attend public schools for their k-12 education.

Jim Bowery said...

Having multiple family members that are LDS I can attest somethings:

* The LDS has its own "relief society" intended as a substitute for government welfare programs. LDS members therefore don't tend to rely on government subsidy of fertility.
* Even the lower IQ LDS tend to be conscientious about their use of relief society resources hence will tend to limit their fertility to their family's resources and not abuse the relief society resources.
* The indoctrination of young women is that their fathers are the representative of Christ in the home. Every family has a priest and it is their father. This is a kind of soft White Sharia.
* This is a remnant culture of pioneer America, which had very high fertility rates.
* In historic Utah, public schools tended to be dominated by LDS faculty, hence were de facto "home schooled". Therefore, when modern Poz hit, there was a lack of awareness in the LDS hierarchy about how toxic that environment could be to LDS kids, and the LDS hierarchy admonished members _not_ to homeschool kids, claiming something about "The Salt of the Earth"... that sending kids into toxic environments would clean those environments rather than destroying the kids. More recently the LDS hierarchy has learned that not everyone LDS families live are like Utah.

Alliumnsk said...

@Ben:
Hispanics:
http://anepigone.blogspot.ru/2017/10/dark-dysgenics.html

thekrustykurmudgeon said...

I obviously think eugenic fertility is a good thing but my overall opinion of mormons is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q81NnURns6w

Anonymous said...

Ah but you are mostly measuring mothers, I bet the numbers are less disgenic if you reliably measure both parents.

Sutton Coldfield said...

LDS do permit birth control, but there are strong theological reasons for having children. In the first place, the highest blessings of eternity are promised to sealed couples (so early marriage is highly encouraged). In the second place, Mormons believe in a premortal life, so there is a great host of spirits ready to come to bodies and mortality, and it is the Mormon duty to bring them into good and godly families.

In practice, most LDS do use BC but in the context of family planning, not family elimination. Median age of first marriage in Utah (our best proxy for LDS marriage data) have risen from 23 M/21 F to 26 M/24 F from 2000 to 2015 though, which is an alarming trend. Mormon fertility has also dropped slightly since the 1980s.

See also Bruce Charlton's work on Mormon fertility.

DissidentRight said...

Fascinating. This is why I read this blog.

Clearly Mormons escaped the culturally demoralizing effects of liberal theology. I guess being a cult has its advantages.

Dan said...

Follow numbersusa and krikorian now. All hands on deck. WTF! How much does the GOPe hate America?

Corvinus said...

Dissident Right...

"Clearly Mormons escaped the culturally demoralizing effects of liberal theology. I guess being a cult has its advantages."

It's fascinating to me the cult of replacement theorists out there, as if whites who outright refuse to have more than 2 children are somehow defective human beings, and that the white race is all but doomed. When, in reality, the most important race, contrary to the machinations of the Coalition of the Fringe Right and Left, is the human race.

Anonymous said...

Corvinus,

There is a country called South Africa that you can live in. All the diversity you could ever want, and no right-wing wypepo to rain on your liberalist parade.

Sub-replacement fertility will lead to population replacement.

Audacious Epigone said...

Anatoly,

Thanks!

That's stretching the GSS Mormon sample pretty thin, unfortunately. Pew's Religious Landscape Survey indicated the same, with more educated Mormons having more children than less educated ones. Same problem for Orthodox Jews in the US--there just aren't enough of them sampled--300 or 400 over the life of the survey means sub-dividing further is tough.

Alliumnsk,

It's all adults running from the seventies all the way through today, so these aren't TFRs. The comparisons are more meaningful within groups than between them. On the other hand, Mormons are *younger* on average than both whites and blacks in the US, so the total TFR gap is probably wider than this indicates, not narrower.

Anon,

Is it the public education or homeschooling that is the putative driver? Where do private schools fit into this?

Ben,

I didn't because Wordsum is administered in English and restricting it to native-born Hispanics and Asians cuts out a huge portion of those populations (about one-third of each), but as Aliumnsk points out I did look at Hispanics by degree (which is probably a better measure of IQ for them).

Krusty,

Evolution doesn't care what surf bros think of them!

Anon,

Both sexes here. Polygamous marriages comprise ~1% of Mormon marriages in the US IIRC.

Corvinus,

No one thinks in terms of "the human race" except for WEIRDOs from inside the Hajnal Line.


Corvinus said...

AE...

"No one thinks in terms of "the human race" except for WEIRDOs from inside the Hajnal Line."

Hate to break it to you, but you are the outlier here. Race replacement and the Hajnal Line are not remotely on the minds of most white Americans. Perhaps you can get volunteers to pass out fliers.

And God Himself is assuredly concerned about ALL of his peoples, not just one group.

Anonymous...

"There is a country called South Africa that you can live in. All the diversity you could ever want, and no right-wing wypepo to rain on your liberalist parade."

I'm not a liberal. Just an educated white American man who makes his own decisions.

"Sub-replacement fertility will lead to population replacement."

Again, it's truly a treat watching this cult react in real time. When you met your wife (assuming you are married), was that your opening line? I'm sure it drives all the ladies wild...

Dan said...

Corvinius - You are like a child. This blog deals with is true, not what we wish were true. The civilizational shifts discussed in this blog are the most consequential topics for most people of any topics under the sun. Civilization will decline drastically or even fail in many, many places in the lifetimes of our own children and grandchildren. It doesnt much matter what you think. The numbers and trends are simply what they are. A century from now, mean global IQ will be far, far less than it is now and many regions will descend into a dark ages. You can learn about that on this very blog if you look around. Somehow I dont think truth is your thing. If you cant handle grown up talk, run along. Reality doesnt care a fig what your opinion is about trends that are undeniable. Most people cannot handle very much truth for it is bleak, and you are probably emotionally healthier for your ignorance. But again, you dont belong here if heavy truth isnt you thing. Stop pestering. Regarding love, i dont think my beautiful wife could be with anyone else after me because everyone else is would seem childlike.

Dave said...

Corvinus is a perfect example of why racism is essential for long-term survival. If you think your race is the human race, in other words, your DNA is no better than that of some African living in a mud hut, why bother having children? Just bring a few million Africans here to pay your Social Security benefits.

White kids born in the 21st century have earned the nickname "Generation Zyklon" partly because they've been raised in such a virulently anti-white environment, but more because racists have children and anti-racists don't.

DissidentRight said...

Corvinus,

I'm not a liberal. Just an educated white American man who makes his own decisions.


So…Trump 2020, then?

Corvinus said...

Dan...

"This blog deals with is true, not what we wish were true."

No, this blog deals with what is believed to be true, which is certainly open for interpretation. Pray tell, what makes you the special snowflake of knowledge here?

"Civilization will decline drastically or even fail in many, many places in the lifetimes of our own children and grandchildren."

More Chicken Little. Let's get to the nitty gritty here--What kind of civilization are we talking about here--American or white? How do you define "civilization"? What specific areas do you think are in decline? Most importantly, how are you personally addressing this decline that is purportedly happening right before our eyes?

"It doesnt much matter what you think. The numbers and trends are simply what they are. A century from now, mean global IQ will be far, far less than it is now and many regions will descend into a dark ages."

You are making a mighty big leap here, considering the impact of the Flynn Effect. Besides, numbers and trends are cyclical. What is happening now is not indicative of what will occur in the future.

Of course, the argument has been made that certain white people are the reason why we are in this (alleged) predicament. According to Vox Day, Alt Right leader extraordinaire, "The Italians and the Irish were the original problem. They could have, and should have, been handled like the Chinese were. But they laid the groundwork for the Jews, the Germans, and the Scandinavians, who made things even worse. And they paved the way for the Mexicans, the Africans, and the Muslims. At this point, the USA probably can't get back to 1986, let alone 1965."

So, a specific group of whites, in this case European, who were deemed undesirable, opened up the floodgates to other "alien" Europeans to invade our shores and act as parasites. Are you on board with this assessment by Day?

Corvinus said...

Dan...

"Corvinus is a perfect example of why racism is essential for long-term survival."

People between the races have gotten along throughout human history. It certainly has been a bumpy ride. But feel free for you and your ilk to separate yourself from others if that makes you feel better. Just expect to be challenged, considering that Alt Right leaders like Brett Stevens and Mark Citadel are touting aristocracy, caste/hierarchy, and nationalism/culture-rule by "sending hime everyone who is not native to the founding group of each country, with reparations in many cases, to enable a peaceful separation without lingering stigma" as the desirable end game.

How in the world are normies going to get on board with this philosophy? Do these "intellectuals" represent the heart and soul of "true Alt Right", or are they part and parcel to the "Fake Alt-Right" or the "Alt-Reich"? Perhaps the Alt Right has some housecleaning to do.

"If you think your race is the human race, in other words, your DNA is no better than that of some African living in a mud hut, why bother having children?"

You should turn to scripture here, as the human race is what God deems to be most important. He made us for one reason: so He could have fellowship with us. John 4:16--God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.

DNA is DNA. It is not "better" or "worse"; only people attach that emotional label to it. Besides, how do Africans living in mud huts personally impact your life? Who really cares if they live that lifestyle? Technological advancements is not THE end all and be all for civilization, considering that our society is "rotting by digital contagions, with modernity is falling to bits", at least in the eyes of Nick Land.

"White kids born in the 21st century have earned the nickname "Generation Zyklon" partly because they've been raised in such a virulently anti-white environment, but more because racists have children and anti-racists don't."

Actually, that nickname was given to this group by the Alt Right. Generation Z leans fiscal conservative, but they are decidedly liberal when it comes to race and certain social causes. So how do you propose to change their minds so they espouse "race realism" and "HbD"? How do you plan on getting this group "red-plilled"?

Dissident Right...

"So…Trump 2020, then?" If the elites don't throw him from a helicopter, or he doesn't die from a massive heart attack, or he isn't impeached.

J Oliver said...

So should the USA recruit more college educated blacks (and BTW Chinese) to immigrate?

Dan said...

"No, this blog deals with what is believed to be true, which is certainly open for interpretation"

This blog is a data driven and tries to derive answers empirically. If you want to answer that data, come back with other data.

I very much doubt you are a serious enough truth seeker to try to analyze the *empirical* data presented and present further *empirical* data on the topics at hand.

" Let's get to the nitty gritty here--What kind of civilization are we talking about here--American or white?"

I didn't say either. I actually expect the United States to do better than many parts of the world. The global picture is decidedly worse than the American picture. Globally, removing the US from consideration, the highest performing nations (e.g. Korea, host of the current Olympics) have an average fertility in the neighborhood of 1 child per woman, far below replacement. Top performers Japan and Germany don't do much better. The lowest performing nations have a fertility six and seven times as high. It doesn't take a rocket scientist civilization must decline sharply as a result, just a person with intellectual integrity who doesn't childishly avoid the data.

"Besides, numbers and trends are cyclical. What is happening now is not indicative of what will occur in the future."

Births that have already occurred and not occurred are not hypothetical. And further, population momentum means that even if India's TFR falls to 2 and Japan's rises to 2, India's population keeps growing for something like 40 more years, and Japanese population keeps falling for something like 40 more years. And India isn't even close to the most low-performing, high fertility nations.

Again, if you were a real intellectual trying to pursue truth, you would counter empirical data with more empirical data or analysis of the data that has been presented. It used to be that people of faith valued the search for truth as a Godly endeavor. But truth isn't your interest, it seems.

"Are you on board with this assessment by Day?"

Joker, did you mistake me for Vox Day? Take up Vox Day quotes with him. Since he seems to live in your head, you know where on the Internet to find him.

I see you like to quote scripture, which is fine, that doesn't either support or refute the data such as it is. If you want to have faith informed by data rather than an infantile faith, you will need to understand and digest what is true. I lead a life of faith as best as I can but I cannot close my eyes to the world such as it is.

Does it trouble you that Islam is expanding rapidly while Christianity declines? If you are a sincere Christian this would trouble you greatly. Somehow I suspect it doesn't trouble you because I don't believe you are a sincere Christian.

Dan said...

"So should the USA recruit more college educated blacks (and BTW Chinese) to immigrate?"

That was Google's strategy and it has led them to their astonishing position of global leadership. I think we would be wise to follow their lead. The Google recruitment centers in Gabon and Burkina Faso became the model that Apple and Amazon successfully replicated in Niger and Congo, respectively. Old industry such as US steel and the auto giants have been slow to catch on to Google's strategy, and thus have lagged.

Corvinus said...

“This blog is a data driven and tries to derive answers empirically. If you want to answer that data, come back with other data.”

Or, one can critically question as to how those conclusions came about. In other words, to what extent do the answers accurately reflect that data?

“have an average fertility in the neighborhood of 1 child per woman, far below replacement.”

Again, why this emphasis on “replacement levels”?

“The lowest performing nations have a fertility six and seven times as high. It doesn't take a rocket scientist civilization must decline sharply as a result, just a person with intellectual integrity who doesn't childishly avoid the data.”


Again, this fixation of “below replacement”. One must take into account that those countries which have the technology, the infrastructure, and the intellectual capacity by its citizens will be able to maintain, at worst, or improve, at best, their civilization. You are assuming that those nations mentioned are other than capable to figure out solutions to future problems.

“And further, population momentum means that even if India's TFR falls to 2 and Japan's rises to 2, India's population keeps growing for something like 40 more years, and Japanese population keeps falling for something like 40 more years.”



And within that time frame, one cannot conclude definitively that a civilization is going to collapse.

“Again, if you were a real intellectual trying to pursue truth…”

There is observably no such thing as a “real intellectual”, just an intellectual. I am not disputing the data—AE is unique in how he takes statistics and breaks it down from his perspective. I am disputing a conclusion that a person draws from it—it is inevitable that white civilization will decline because white people are not having as many white children, who are more likely to have higher IQ’s compared to non-whites who are siring offspring. Indeed, the diversification of the American population from the bottom holds more than just demographic significance. It reflects an emerging cultural divide between old and young as they adapt to change in different ways. It’s going to be a “young colored person’s” America. For better or for worse? We shall see…


“Joker, did you mistake me for Vox Day? Take up Vox Day quotes with him.”

No, you are stating that white civilization is in decline. He offers a reason as to why that decline is occurring. Basically, white people are the culprit. Now, if you were a “real intellectual”, you would address his line of thinking since it has direct bearing on your position.

“Does it trouble you that Islam is expanding rapidly while Christianity declines? If you are a sincere Christian this would trouble you greatly. Somehow I suspect it doesn't trouble you because I don't believe you are a sincere Christian.”

You are making a categorical error here. A Christian need not meet your standard of sincerity in that they must be troubled by the expansion of Islam. Now, I am certainly concerned, but not to the point where I, as a Christian, desire to remove them from America by force.

Anonymous said...

The GOP about to lose another special election.

https://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2018/house/pa/pennsylvania_18th_district_special_election_saccone_vs_lamb-6327.html

The midterms have to be treated as a rerun of the presidential election. If the Dems win the House, they will impeach.

Dan said...

Corvinius:

" I am not disputing the data—AE is unique in how he takes statistics and breaks it down from his perspective. I am disputing a conclusion that a person draws from it—it is inevitable that white civilization will decline because white people are not having as many white children, who are more likely to have higher IQ’s compared to non-whites who are siring offspring."

AE doesn't say that. He just presented the data. You drew that conclusion for yourself!

"No, you are stating that white civilization is in decline."

I never said 'white civilization is in decline'. I said civilization will decline. You attached the word 'white' to civilization. That is quite the Freudian slip.

You should be ashamed for thinking such awful thoughts. I can't imagine what kind of dark place that kind of hate would come from.

DissidentRight said...

Corvinus thinks Trump might be impeached. Lol.
Corvinus affirms the Social Gospel, yet claims to be a Christian. Lol.

Sorry Corvinus, but it's your world that's dying, not ours.

Anonymous said...

Bad times create strong men,
Strong men create good times,
Good times create weak men,
Weak men create bad times

Corvinus is a perfect example of the weak men that rule us. Painfully ignorant, yet self-rightous, blind to obvious patterns and logical conclusions and uses vague, limp-wristed interpretations of scripture to essentially justify genocide.

A fake intellectual, a fake Chistian and a fake man.

Corvinus said...

Dan...

"I never said 'white civilization is in decline'. I said civilization will decline. You attached the word 'white' to civilization. That is quite the Freudian slip."

You and I both know the only civilization you are talking about is the white civilization. So you can drop the feigning surprise act.

Dissident...

"Sorry Corvinus, but it's your world that's dying, not ours."

Until you are able to hornswaggle, I mean convince, normies and Generation Z into you ideological camp, your "world" is nothing more than a figment of your imagination.

Anonymous...

"A fake intellectual, a fake Chistian and a fake man."

It took you 30 seconds for you to merely create an ad hominem attack. Congratulations on your achievement.

Audacious Epigone said...

Corvinus,

WEIRDO is an acronym in that context, for people who are western, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic, and outbred (i.e. people of northwestern European descent). I didn't mean to imply that universalism is unusual among whites. Quite the contrary. I should make a point to link to the definition whenever I use it.

The data presented is always sourced and always freely accessible (well, there may have been an exception or two in the past, but as a general rule). I do my damnedest to make sure it is accurate and trustworthy. The subsequent color commentary tends to be one interpretation among many.

how are you personally addressing this decline that is purportedly happening right before our eyes?

Dan has, iirc, five kids. If his compatriots could manage half that, some rounded up some rounded down, and we were able to operate like a serious country and repatriate non-citizens in addition to enacting a moratorium on immigration, we'd be a long way towards doing that.

J Oliver,

We need an immigration moratorium that is a generation or two in duration.

Merit immigration is less bad than taking whoever can get here, but neither are desirable.

Dan,

That was Google's strategy and it has led them to their astonishing position of global leadership

Ha, this is what real humor would look like if contemporary comedians were more than bootlickers and ring-kissers.

Anon,

The (D)s have quietly been pursuing an electoral strategy of running moderate whites--VA, AL, FL, and now PA--and it's working. I wonder if it's because these aren't salient enough for the shrieking SJW contingents to notice. It does concern me, as it is our Achilles' Heel.

Sid said...

AE,

When the Dutch pioneers who would become the Afrikaners reached South Africa, they encountered African b...

Bushmen!

The Bantus came along with their own version of agriculture and later, displacing and largely replacing the non-black Bushmen.

Simply put, black Africans are relative newcomers to South Africa. Newer than the white Afrikaners.

More broadly, the Bushmen were all across Africa. Look at Ancient Egyptian depictions of people from Punt, somewhere on the Eastern African coast - they look like Bushmen, and not the black Africans you see in those places today!

But for some odd, strange reason, black Africans aren't expected to feel guilt for taking land from the Bushmen and the Pygmies. It's strange... It's almost like only white people are supposed to feel bad for when their ancestors took others' land!

Audacious Epigone said...

Sid,

Exactly. Bushmen/Khoisan people are South Africa's West Virginians even though they've been there the longest. Their numbers are small and their footprint has always been insignificant.

Anonymous said...

@Corvinus.
"Hate to break it to you, but you are the outlier here. Race replacement and the Hajnal Line are not remotely on the minds of most white Americans. Perhaps you can get volunteers to pass out fliers."

I believe you're partially correct. The Alt Right are outliers, but not as far on the fringes of White American society as you think.
I remember reading of a poll, taken in '17 I believe ,which showed many White Americans share some of the beliefs of the Alt Right.
Also a poll of millenials by Gen Forw>rd
showed race trumped religion and ideology as a primary identity among Whites.However racial identity followed gender and class.
This,I suspect, represents identities taught by parents and grandparents from a past when the racial demography of the U.S. was overwhelmingly White.
I believe you're under the mistaken impression that the Alt Right is doomed to irrelevance. Never to serve as the Vanguard of White Americans.Never to create a party capable of gaining political power,dominating the government, and implementing its policies and resetting the racial demographics of the U.S.to pre- 1965.
But rather exiled to the fringes to fume and spout until it evaporates away as the U.S.population becomes less White and less racially conscious.
If this is a correct assessment of your belief, then again I believe you're partially right.
I don't think the Alt Right is going to win substantial power or influence in the
U.S.
Maybe it will win in some Congressional districts, even some Senate seats but come to dominate one, much less three, of the branches of government, and the federal bureaucracy like the Democrats and Republicans have? No, not likely.
It would surprise me if they come to dominate the government of a single State of the Union.
In spite of all this I believe that the Alt Right, at least that portion of it that is willing to break with the past, has a bright future and will realize it's most important goal: a White Ethnostate.
I believe the U.S.is headed for major social unrest,possibly civil war, and ultimately dissolution, in the not to distant future.
Several polities will emerge from the ruins. I imagine each large racial group White, Black, Hispanic will have it's own state. They'll also be racially mixed areas founded on shared values/ beliefs Christian,Secular or Socialist.Some State and regional identifies might become National identities,eg Vermont and Southern.
A rump U.S.might even survive.
If the past is any guide we'll probably see White flight from racially mixed areas to the White Ethnostate,I also expect violence against Whites to contribute to this.
Under such conditions the Alt Right will dominate that Ethnostate. The organizations and individuals currently identified with the Alt Right might have passed on,but they will have helped pave the way by increasing White consciousness,stimulating debate about options and creating networks of likeminded Whites.
So yes the Alt Right has a future,just not necessarily, the one many envision.

Dan said...

Corvinus, don't tell me what i am and am not thinking. You added the word white, not me. Certainly white civilization will shrink in size, but my point was that broader civilization will decline. Many places have a far lower level of civilization (communication, roads, noncannibalism) than when colonizers left. As globalism recedes and those who have done a lot but have declined in numbers take their ball and go home, is this a great triumph for the rest? In fact thley seem to clamor to live under the rule they cast off.

This is an outpost for people who want to see what is actually happening and where things are actually leading. In that the host of this blog is very generous. If like most people the darker realities are not your interest, this is not for you. History will unfold, as history is wont to do, and you like most people can be completely surprised. Or more likely, you will not understand what is happening even when it occurs.

Audacious Epigone said...

Anon,

I broadly agree with that assessment. We are laying the intellectual groundwork for what comes after the political dissolution, a political dissolution that seems all but inevitable to me. It is merely a question of when and how, not if.

Dan,

"noncannibalism", lol! Definitely one of my favorite Western values.

Corvinus said...

Sid--

“But for some odd, strange reason, black Africans aren't expected to feel guilt for taking land from the Bushmen and the Pygmies. It's strange... It's almost like only white people are supposed to feel bad for when their ancestors took others' land!”

While you make a legitimate point, it can be argued that the misery and suffering endured by black Africans as a result of contact with white Europeans was substantially more devastating to their society and well-being.


AE...

“If his compatriots could manage half that, some rounded up some rounded down...”

That would be nice, but it really is up to white people themselves whether or not they have children.

“and we were able to operate like a serious country”

Whether or not we are operating like a serious country is a matter of perspective.

“and repatriate non-citizens...”

Highly unlikely, as that would take a tremendous amount of political will.

“in addition to enacting a moratorium on immigration”

Which I personally have no issue here.

“Bushmen/Khoisan people are South Africa's West Virginians even though they've been there the longest. Their numbers are small and their footprint has always been insignificant.”

From the European point of view, indeed. But not to these groups of people who were quite content with the civilization they built.

“We are laying the intellectual groundwork for what comes after the political dissolution, a political dissolution that seems all but inevitable to me. It is merely a question of when and how, not if.”

You have tremendous competition with erecting that groundwork, from Brett Stevens to Mark Citadel to Vox Day. And trying to convince that these philosophies are in the best interest to normies and Generation Z will take yeomen’s work. Best wishes on this endeavor.

Dan...

“Certainly white civilization will shrink in size, but my point was that broader civilization will decline.”

You’re not fooling anyone. Our broader civilization, according to the Alt Right, is white and European.


Anony...

“I remember reading of a poll, taken in '17 I believe ,which showed many White Americans share some of the beliefs of the Alt Right.”

The more palatable positions, but not the more extreme, like instituting patriarchy and creating artisocratic governments based on a strict social hierarchy.

“I believe the U.S.is headed for major social unrest,possibly civil war, and ultimately dissolution, in the not to distant future.”

Perhaps, but probably not.

“Under such conditions the Alt Right will dominate that Ethnostate. The organizations and individuals currently identified with the Alt Right might have passed on,but they will have helped pave the way by increasing White consciousness,stimulating debate about options and creating networks of likeminded Whites.”

Like any group, the Alt Right will have their in-fighting. And, of course, there will have to compete with other entities. So it is not a sure-fire thing.

Dan said...

Corvinus, you shouldn't presume to know what I think - for one thing, your mental models seem to be much more simplistic than mine. You cannot ascribe to me something you heard another person say (presumably Vox Day who lives in your head). We arent leftists who think all alike. If I wanted to say white civilization I would have no problem saying it. As a matter of fact, I work in intellectual property and I see civilization heavily in terms of those groups of people who have demonstrated consistent capability as measured by new invention. So in my mind on the civilization scale the Japanese rank above West Virginians, for instance. I deduct major points for sex selective abortion and a dirty environment, which gives Indians and Chinese a fairly low score in my mental map. It is slightly insulting that you thought my views are so simple. There is only one nation on Earth that couples high inventiveness with above replacement fertility. Do you know which it is?

Dan said...

Corvinus, if you saw civilization as I do, through the lens of patents, and understood that related abilities tend to be hereditary, and then looked at fertility of all the inventing countries, then you would see civilizational decline too. It is like math. There can be numerous ways of arriving at an answer. My mental map of civilization places particular emphasis on Olympic medals in downhill alpine events. Vox Day misses that key metric of what makes a people truly great.

Corvinus said...

"Corvinus, you shouldn't presume to know what I think - for one thing, your mental models seem to be much more simplistic than mine."

My mental models are sound in substance and approach.

"You cannot ascribe to me something you heard another person say (presumably Vox Day who lives in your head)."

I was simply noting Day's take on this matter.

"As a matter of fact, I work in intellectual property and I see civilization heavily in terms of those groups of people who have demonstrated consistent capability as measured by new invention. So in my mind on the civilization scale the Japanese rank above West Virginians, for instance. I deduct major points for sex selective abortion and a dirty environment, which gives Indians and Chinese a fairly low score in my mental map."

In essence, you are offering your personal interpretation of what constitutes civilization.

"It is slightly insulting that you thought my views are so simple."

That is a strawman. I never directly or indirectly made that claim.

"Corvinus, if you saw civilization as I do, through the lens of patents..."

Again, one way to look at it, but not THE only way. or even the "correct" way.

"and understood that related abilities tend to be hereditary..."

Some, yes. Others, it is a combination of hereditary and environment.

"and then looked at fertility of all the inventing countries, then you would see civilizational decline too. It is like math."

And the low fertility rates of those inventing countries just happen to be white.

?My mental map of civilization places particular emphasis on Olympic medals in downhill alpine events. Vox Day misses that key metric of what makes a people truly great."

Why don't you explain your theory to him and get back to us. I'm afraid you have to go back.

Joshua Sinistar said...

So the blackbird is back huh? Quoth the Raven, not at all like a real black guy. White Nationalism is what the Founders had in mind. Democracy NEVER works. There is no real strength in "diversity". Society is unravelling and NOTHING HOLDS IT TOGETHER ANYMORE.
White Men built this place. They have the inbred home field advantage. American Indians are too busy drinking to care. There is no Alt-Right. The White Man will take it back after this Mos Eisley blows the fuck up.

Its looking like a house of cards already. Unpayable debts. Open Censorship. A society which shares NOTHING IN COMMON must fall apart.
White Men have the understanding of how this all works. That home field advantage will not be easily transferred to Shithole invaders.

Audacious Epigone said...

Joshua,

White Men have the understanding of how this all works. That home field advantage will not be easily transferred to Shithole invaders.

That we will realize how utterly superfluous non-whites are to Western civilization is what they fear more than anything else.

Dan said...

"And the low fertility rates of those inventing countries just happen to be white."

It should be obvious to a person of normal intelligence this discussion on inventing countries encompasses Japan and Korea. Corvinus, you are both extraordinarily dim and almost completely humorless. The future will be as bewildering to you as the present must be.

I suspect the reason you are so butthurt about VoxDay is that you have been banned from his blog, because you keep asking me to discuss stuff with him. I'm sorry Vox Day has rejected your advances.

Corvinus said...

AE--"That we will realize how utterly superfluous non-whites are to Western civilization is what they fear more than anything else."

What percentage of the average American white person is on board with saving Western Civilization, let alone aware of what Western Civilization entails?

Dan--"It should be obvious to a person of normal intelligence this discussion on inventing countries encompasses Japan and Korea. Corvinus, you are both extraordinarily dim and almost completely humorless. The future will be as bewildering to you as the present must be."

Listen, you have an opinion on what you think constitutes civilization. It is one of many positions, but it is not THE position. For white people in general, fertility levels are not a priority. Rather, it is building a family as how they see fit when they desire. Furthermore, we live in a society where we are advancing at the rate of light speed separate from our ability to reproduce. In other words, our technological output is not necessarily linked to our procreative input. At the rate we are going, many regions of the world will be transformed.

https://singularityhub.com/2015/01/26/ray-kurzweils-mind-boggling-predictions-for-the-next-25-years/#sm.000016d84imkwfe4yzz55rg110e08

"I suspect the reason you are so butthurt about VoxDay is that you have been banned from his blog, because you keep asking me to discuss stuff with him. I'm sorry Vox Day has rejected your advances."

The train is fine, Dan. the train is fine.

Dan said...

Corvinus --

Oh, a fellow singularity believer!

"By the 2030s, virtual reality will begin to feel 100% real. We will be able to upload our mind/consciousness by the end of the decade.

By the 2040s, non-biological intelligence will be a billion times more capable than biological intelligence (a.k.a. us). Nanotech foglets will be able to make food out of thin air and create any object in physical world at a whim.

By 2045, we will multiply our intelligence a billionfold by linking wirelessly from our neocortex to a synthetic neocortex in the cloud."

I'm with you brother.

Remember this from back in 2011?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069222/Not-exactly-NASA-Ugandan-space-chief-builds-test-craft-mothers-yard-says-shuttle-orbit-2015.html

Look what has happened since then! A little pluck and determination, and they have done it! Some of the less progressive thinkers were surprised the Ugandans achieved low Earth orbit just 18 months after that article, but by the time of their successful Mars walk in the middle of 2017 we had all come to expect great things. To think how those backwards clowns calling themselves "HBDers" doubted such possibilities! Who's laughing now? I must confess that even I glanced at those blogs once or twice in my day. At first I wasn't convinced that people like this could deliver the singularity we are counting on, but now I'm confident we're in good hands.

Joshua Sinistar said...

Expecting computers to save you from yourselves is magical thinking boy.
The ONLY THING more rational and objective than ME is a Computer. They have NO EMOTIONS AT ALL. No biological needs. Why would an AI care about YOU?
Computers are based on Math and Logic. Algorithms DO NOT CARE HOW YOU "FEEL". Creating a system that subsidizes low IQ morons is not ANY BETTER THAN WHAT YOU HAVE NOW.
You get what you pay for, and what you REWARD will multiply, sometimes at a geometric rate that exceeds the Carrying Capacity of the Earth. Third World Ghetto Trash are like Tribbles. Feed them and you get Moar Hungry Tribbles. There ain't no system that can mitigate that genetic failure.

Corvinus said...

"Look what has happened since then! A little pluck and determination, and they have done it!"

Considering that the purpose of European colonial education was primarily to Europeanize Africans--classic invade the world propaganda--and considering that African nations are fairly new at this independence thing, with their institutions finally coming into their own, it is a step in the right direction. But, of course, you really lack the proper context here.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/nz7bnq/why-ghana-started-a-space-program

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/22/tech/south-africa-space-ska/index.html

"South Africa wants to move away from being resource heavy economy to bring young people into science and technology," explains Fanaroff. "Building the SKA ... is a way of emphasizing and getting people to accept that science and tech is a key part of development."

Imagine that...development. Without the "benefits" of European exploitation.

Joshua Sinistar said...

Corvinus is so out of touch he doesn't even keep up with current events. South Africa has run out of water in a major city. These imbeciles cannot even maintain the water treatment plants White Men built. The blacks are pretty much luggage as far as space is concerned. The idea that these morons who cannot even MAINTAIN technology they got in a working condition could build rockets to reach space is LUDICROUS.

Dan said...

Corvinus --

SA's new President Cyril Ramaphosa (rhymes with George Washington) is planning Zimbabwe style land reforms. I figured that GNON would determine which of us was correct in the fullness of time, but I didn't expect it to take a mere half a day.

Corvinus said...

Joshie, you say you are going to fight the system using your bare hands, but in the end all you are is a harmless armchair warrior.


Dan...

"SA's new President Cyril Ramaphosa (rhymes with George Washington) is planning Zimbabwe style land reforms."

Considering the land had historically belonged to blacks and was violently seized by whites, it is other than surprising. Black South Africans constitute 79 percent of the population, but directly own only 1.2 percent of the country’s rural land.

So how does his plan directly impact you and your family?

Meanwhile --> https://face2faceafrica.com/article/top-5-african-countries-advanced-space-programs

Joshua Sinistar said...

Blackbird, I KNOW you aren't black. You have the verbal patterns and cheap tricks of the Synagogue. All of you amuse me. You are NOWHERE NEAR AS SMART as you believe. The Eye of Horus sees all. This may be an armchair or it may be practice for a throne. The thrones are about to be upended. This isn't a Game. You do not understand violence like I do boy. Violence and Pain are my stock and trade.
Some call it The Golden Rule. Its actually a WARNING. Reciprocity. Do you know what that means? Payback is a bitch. Payback is MY Bitch.

Mordecai McFly said...

>Parenthetically, this isn't the only instance that the severe dysgenic trend among American blacks has come up. It's markedly more pronounced than the trends for non-black groups are.

William Shockley tried to warn you Buckley! You didn't listen!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JOIqkh2ms8