Thursday, March 06, 2014

Geez Jay!

In a post lamenting the right-wing crazies and craziness of the HBD-sphere and without any apparent sense of irony, Jayman declares:
If the facts about heritable human differences are to be ever taken seriously, it needs to be extricated from such utter nonsense, as well as from the mean-spirited sentiment.
With all due respect (and I have a ton of it for the guy, who I've had the chance to get to know not just on an intellectual level but also on a personal one), Jayman is new kid on the block. He's an exception to the rule--a welcome one with great voice, subject matter, flow, and eloquence in his writing--among the first of hopefully many, but at this point in time still an exception all the same. He's an exception because people who share his cultural attitudes and political persuasions tend to find the mere thought of human biodiversity blasphemous; the sort of thing not merely entertained by a misguided mind, but by an evil one.

HBD and the Dark Enlightenment that has grown out of it has made tremendous strides forward over the last decade, from the unrecognizable to the unthinkably disreputable to the overly exaggerated and cherry-picked half-truth to, in some quarters, begrudging acceptance, or at least the initial stages of flirting with such acceptance. During this trial by fire, it was the disagreeable, unapologetic, uncouth, dissident right that indefatigably carried the banner forward, absorbing relentless projectiles fired its way, picking up adherents of lesser intestinal fortitude--if greater thoughtfulness--in the process.

Here's to hoping Jayman continues to successfully 'raise awareness' of HBD in the minds of those previously closed to the notion that rather than stopping 10,000 years ago, evolutionary pressures on humanity have actually accelerated greatly with the onset of agriculture. But it seems a bit supercilious and self-serving to simultaneously start sharing in the spoils and denigrating those who came before because of their unfavorable interpretations of the data you've recently discovered.

Parenthetically, Jayman quotes a commenter named misdreavus, who offers that :
Surely there was a time when people actually tried to research certain topics before launching a slurry of half-baked and inchoate opinions with an audacious (and entirely unwarranted) degree of self-confidence — not so much because people were any better informed in yesteryear than they are today, but because certain structural barriers posed an impediment to the crazy and incompetent expressing their ideas in lofty places.
When I started blogging back in 2005, intent on maintaining a tight empirical grounding in all that I wrote, I choose the moniker Audacious Epigone to mockingly preempt exactly those sorts of strawmen and attendant ad hominem attacks misdreavus levels above.

21 comments:

JayMan said...

I appreciate your thoughtful commentary on my critical post.

My response:

For the record, I don't think more people spitting out ideas on the internet is a bad thing. I'm of the mind that an open exchange of ideas is very much a good thing. An inevitable consequence of this is that with greater access, you will get more of everything, bad ideas and good. It is the nature of the beast. Overall, I think this is a net plus.

It is true that most people of my political persuasion, that is left of center, are disinclined to accept HBD, and indeed regard it as high blasphemy. My suspicion, at least at present, is that perhaps a majority of the non-White ones privately believe in HBD, at least functionally, if not more so. Of course, with Blacks especially, it behooves them to believe this, yet speak the party line. I can tell you that from my personal experience, there's more than a little "folk"-HBD embraced by Jamaicans.

"During this trial by fire, it was the disagreeable, unapologetic, uncouth, dissident right that indefatigably carried the banner forward, absorbing relentless projectiles fired its way, picking up adherents of lesser intestinal fortitude--if greater thoughtfulness--in the process."

I think this is a key point. The "old guard", so to speak, of the "Dark Enlightenment" indeed have to have these qualities. It takes a special type of person to challenge the orthodoxy. As well, HBD comes naturally to a certain temperaments (mostly right of center, as we see), hence, the people who populate this space. They perform the indispensable function of braving the storm and sailing ahead, without which much of the information which I use would likely not be available.

Now, that said, then there's people like me, Cochran & Harpending, Razib Khan, misdreavus and others who also perform another indispensable role: we maintain the intellectual integrity of this topic. Someone has to keep things on track and ensure accuracy in what's discussed. I'd like to think I play some part in that key role. We are the road maintenance crew of sorts, making sure the claims made are factual. It's an important role, but it's also an on-going one. New claims will be made, some will be fairly close to the truth, and other won't be so close. It takes vigilant effort to keep this on track.

Anonymous said...

JayMan you've got some delusions of grandeur if you think you belong in the same sentence with Cochran, Harpending and Razib Khan. You write a sometimes decent but mostly forgettable blog.

Dan said...

"JayMan you've got some delusions of grandeur if you think you belong in the same sentence with Cochran, Harpending and Razib Khan. You write a sometimes decent but mostly forgettable blog."

It's a good blog and a great contribution to the pursuit of truth. Even though I don't agree with some of his opinions, including the gay virus theory.

Anonymous said...

"It's a good blog and a great contribution to the pursuit of truth"

Is it though? If Jayman stopped blogging would the pursuit of truth really be damaged? I highly doubt it. There's nothing wrong with claiming bloggers can play an important role. If guys like Sailer or Heartiste stopped writing, that would be a serious blow to the pursuit of truth. But Jayman? I don't see it.

Anonymous said...

These new guys are young untested juveniles who want to be seen as distinguished authority figures. Dark Enlightenment veterans need to learn to tolerate raucous-voiced newcomers and give them time to mature.

It's all part of the growing up process for people and movements.

Anonymous said...

I'd also like to commend people like Jayman and Razib Khan for writing about this, if only because they're not white. Having writers who aren't 'old white men' (as reprehensibly stupid as that argument is) takes away a key plank of any opposition's argument, and forces them to engage with the ideas.

Also, the fact that Razib mostly writes about complex genetics allows him to 'slip by' the automatic gates most people put up when they hear something un-PC. If we can get people used to the realities of genetics and race, it can only help, albeit indirectly.

Anonymous said...

"Dark Enlightenment veterans..."


There is some irony of talking about 'veterans' of an internet community only a few years old. The hubris and self-centeredness of DE never fails to surprise me.

Audacious Epigone said...

I understand handles can be seen as cosmetic and distracting, but it would help here if there was a little less anonymity (but pseudonymity is of course just fine!).

JayMan said...

I like how the source of all my detraction is anonymous.

I think Cochran said it quite well on "anonymous."

"These new guys are young untested juveniles who want to be seen as distinguished authority figures. Dark Enlightenment veterans need to learn to tolerate raucous-voiced newcomers and give them time to mature."

Because, true to Cavalier form, proper society needs an established hierarchy, yes?

"Is it though? If Jayman stopped blogging would the pursuit of truth really be damaged? I highly doubt it. There's nothing wrong with claiming bloggers can play an important role. If guys like Sailer or Heartiste stopped writing, that would be a serious blow to the pursuit of truth. But Jayman? I don't see it."

Sailer, sure. But Heartiste? I guess that reveals your understanding of things. Heartiste is likely close to the truth when he talks about the male/female mating dynamic (and then not always), but almost without exception, when he veers to any other topic, not so much.

You guys are lucky you have folks like me to clean up.

Anonymous said...

Well unless "Jayman" is what is written on your birth certificate, I'll let the irony of the criticism of anonymity speak for itself. Psuedonymity....so ballsy, right?

But you are certainly right on schedule with your appeal to Cochran. You seem to love slobbing his knob throughout comment sections and posts while he barely acknowledges you at all. But go ahead an keep telling us you are on his level.

"You guys are lucky you have folks like me to clean up."

Seeing as your blog barely passed 100K views despite being up for two years and you spamming your blog all over comment sections far and wide (like you just did), I'd say most people don't agree.

But if blog traffic isn't your favorite measure of prominence, how about the fact that none of the well-known DE bloggers link or reference you besides hbd chick (and her blogroll is a mile long).

JayMan said...

The problem the "Anonymous" moniker is that we can't tell which anonymous are you, so we have to defer Cochran's wisdom's on that. Our pseudonyms are own brands here, you don't even have that...

Now, far be it for me to interrupt your hatejaculation here, but it would be helpful to get your facts straight. I'm actually on course towards 400K views my friend, and that's only for the Wordpress life.

My blog is linked to on all the blogrolls that actually matter (e.g., Steve Sailer, Peter Frost, here). You will forgive me if I don't lose any sleep over the fact that I haven't made the favorites board of every last kook in the DE space...

Anonymous said...

JayMan is decompensating before our very eyes, under very mild criticism. He reminds me of Obama in that regard. Members of the elite establishment are like that. Persons who suffer from grandiose narcissism, likewise.

We should let up on JayMan and allow him to recover his dignity.

Anonymous said...

You're in a few blogrolls but what is interesting is none of these guys ever reference or quote one of your for posts for compelling or original thought. The only time one comes across a link of your posts is in comment sections... always one of your comments.

This isn't a "hatejaculation". I didn't have a problem with you until you compared yourself to the genius authors of the seminal masterpiece the 10,000 Year Explosion, and one of the best and most prolific geneticists out there, Razib Khan.

Then you dissed Heartiste who has opened more eyes to HBD than you could do in 30 years of your rephrasing of Albion's Seed. I myself only clicked on your blog because I found you arguing in his comment section that men don't prefer slender women, or something ridiculous like that.

Basically in the HBD movement you are pretty much a tagalong. Which is fine, but gain some perspective and humility.

JayMan said...

Hey Audacious, I have an idea:

Why don't you (or someone) make a post called "JayMan Hatefest" or something like that where every poor schmo who has a grievance with me can have their "concerns" aired. It might be more efficient that way. ;)

silly girl said...

Uh, I am a little late to this party, and I haven't exactly read every word JayMan has written on his blog, maybe we might want to be a little more diplomatic in our criticism of those we mostly agree with. I know, I know, typical chick I am, but still. There are real jerks out there far more deserving of our negative assessment.

Just sayin'

silly girl said...

Okay, first it tells me it isn't going to post my comment, then it prints it twice!

sorry about that

Audacious Epigone said...

The purpose of the post isn't the opening up of commentary on Jayman's general body of blogging work. If you want to do that, do it on his home turf. The purpose here is to address the particular post in question.

panjoomby said...

@anonymous: "There is some irony of talking about 'veterans' of an internet community only a few years old. The hubris and self-centeredness of DE never fails to surprise me."

Look, bucko - the facts & an academic community that discusses them (& does research!) has been around a long time. this never got any "traction" in the public, since it's a verboten topic in the media. in 1994 after hernstein & murray's bell curve book came out, many academics banded together & put a letter in the Wall Street Journal www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997mainstream.pdf
long before that, many in the field (especially in the test publishing industry which stopped releasing standardization data by race by 1990) knew of these things & discussed them with each other! nobody ever called it "HDB" till a few years ago. some of us have known the facts & participated in the research for decades - HDB & DE are new terms for an OLD subject area - one that many of us wished was not true, but alas we get the reality we're stuck with - so act accordingly with your so called "hubris & self-centeredness."

JayMan said...

@Anonymous:

"Then you dissed Heartiste who has opened more eyes to HBD than you could do in 30 years of your rephrasing of Albion's Seed."

Heartiste, huh?

Give me a break.

TangoMan said...

I kind of miss the old days of GNXP, back in 2003-2006, when we would swarm a blog and just dismantle their stale old PC arguments, stir up a hornet's nest of people blowing their tops at the PC blasphemy that they were reading and being unable to mount better arguments.

Audacious Epigone said...

TangoMan,

You guys forever changed the way I looked at the world, and for that I am eternally grateful.