Saturday, February 11, 2012

That Jew won't hunt

After OneSTDV articulated his hypothesis that Jews are to blame for the spread of vegetarianism, Half Sigma angrily rejected it, asserting as unlikely that Jews are anymore disproportionately atop the vegetarian movement than they are at the tops of virtually every other movement on account of enjoying an average IQ advantage of nearly one standard deviation over white gentiles.

Half Sigma insinuates that Jews are basically no less carnivorous than the rest of the population is by referencing the GSS and pointing to a woman he guesses to be Jewish who writes about hunting (the latter being an odd single data point to refer to, since it is already serves as a sort of "exception that proves the rule" since the writer is female).

For what it's worth, IHTG pithily relays the impression I have:
Contemporary vegetarianism probably comes from the same place as environmentalism and hippie culture, the roots of which are not Jewish.
But Half Sigma's utilization of the GSS to bolster his view is suspect by way of omission. He writes:
In 1993 and 1994, the General Social Survey asked the question “And how often do you refuse to eat meat for moral or environmental reasons?” The majority of Jews responded “Never.”
That's accurate. However, it doesn't really address OneSTDV's point. By this metric, no group can be considered to have taken the lead so-to-speak in pushing any particular behavior or belief that is not undertaken by at least a sizable minority if not a majority of the larger population. Similarly specious arguments are made on behalf of protecting the blank-slate egalitarian myth on other fronts--most blacks don't commit violent crimes so criminality has nothing to do with race; most illegal immigrants aren't members of violent drug gangs, so immigration has nothing to do with the spread of gangs and drugs in the US, etc.

So let's consider the GSS more objectively. The following table shows the percentages of respondents who either "always" or "often" avoid eating meat for environmental or moral reasons by broad religious affiliation:

Religion
Avoids meat
Protestant
7.0%
Catholic
11.5%
Jewish
19.6%
None
14.9%
Other
20.5%

As of the mid-nineties, one-in-five Jews regularly avoided eating meat, compared to about one-in-nine Catholics and one-in-fourteen Protestants. There are undoubtedly some irreligious ethnically Jewish people who are classified here under "none" or "other" as well, but the proportions of those groups who avoid meat is similar to that of religiously affiliated Jews. The percentages by political orientation are 13.0% for liberals, 8.3% for moderates, and 8.6% for conservatives. While liberals are more apt to avoid meat than moderates and conservatives are, they are less likely to do so than Jews are. Judge for yourselves.

The GSS also asks respondents whether they or their spouses hunt. The survey has done this since its inception and continues to do so into the present. The following table shows the percentages of respondents who either hunt or have a spouse who does, again by broad religious affiliation:

Religion
Hunts
Protestant
22.6%
Catholic
18.9%
Jewish
2.6%
None
18.2%
Other
16.8%

Wow. Sample sizes are enormous here (n = 28,681).

Jews are more heavily concentrated in large cities than non-Jews are, but two-thirds live outside them in suburbs or in small towns (compared to four-fifths of the rest of the population), so that's only a partial explanation that still leaves a lot of ground to cover. OneSTDV is not far off the mark when he flatly states that "Jews do not hunt".

GSS variables used: RELIG, NOMEAT(1-2)(3-4), HUNT(1-3)(4), COMTYPE, POLVIEWS(1-3)(4)(5-7)

16 comments:

Razib said...

wtf. it took THAT MANY comments for someone to point out that hitler was a vegetarian on both of those blogs? right-wing movements in the inter-war period in continental europe espoused all sorts of views and practices which we would consider "hippie" and "lefty," from nudism, to paganism, to raw foodism. do people just not know this shit? if not, they should not offer up opinions then on such topics.

fwiw, the original post kind of struck me as rather dumb, but sigma's response was even dumber. instead of decomposing it point by point he just started throwing shots in all directions. i tend to agree with sigma that the jew-fixation is stupid and tiresome, but the best reaction is to response factually, not angrily.

then again, a quick look at the comments on both blogs indicates that the readers are several stand devs less intelligent than the proprietors ;-) so perhaps i should be more generous.

Dr. Anonymous said...

I find it hypocritical that kosher meat supposedly has the blood drained, even though that doesn't eliminate dead blood cells in the muscle tissue. So what's the point of even draining the blood? The end result is still consuming dead pieces of flesh, so Jews are definitely not vegetarians.

Vegetarianism is a offshoot of hippies/liberal ideology, most of participants are against slaughter house cruelty, animal abuse and support organic methods of raising cattle instead of using HGH hormones.

Amy said...

Regarding your first table--many Jews "often" avoid eating meat because they keep kosher (and therefore keep meat and dairy meals separate).

Son of Brock Landers said...

Half Sigma got really defensive because it's his tribe. I agree with him that there's been lots of chatter recently pinning everything on the Jews. I personally just think modern reform Jews in America are just super libs. They follow what the lib approved methods and behaviors are.

Anyone see "Food Inc"? If so, you might be like me and look for pork products from smaller slaughterhouses that don't use CO2 gas chambers. I watched that and immediately thought that the only lesson learned from the Holocaust was how to kill pigs quickly and bloodlessly (because we surely have not stopped genocide elsewhere since).

Olave d'Estienne said...

Okay, let's put the corporal's purported vegetarianism to bed. Even if you're sure he was a vegetarian, at least read the link (snopes.com, or something) so that you can refute its points more directly. (I myself have no way of knowing. He loved stuffed pigeon, some say, but it's not like anyone believes anything about Central Europe in the early 40s anyway.)

Jokah Macpherson said...

The only other obvious question is whether it's a matter of Jews' higher intelligence. There aren't enough cases to reach a strong conclusion but they seem to be at least as herbivorous as Protestants if not significantly more so about equally across all slices of the WORDSUM roast.

Half Sigma would probably be best off pointing out that even though Jews are disproportionately vegetarian, the vast majority of vegetarians in the U.S. are still Christian.

That's too bad about the hunting thing, though. If only Esau had been the patriarch instead of Jacob.

Noah172 said...

From my own experience, I have known a sizeable number of Jews, almost all more-or-less irreligious (treif diet, no synagogue except High Holidays and bar mitzvahs, etc) and just about all left-of-center politically. Only know of one vegetarian couple. The vegetarians (actual vegetarians, not just people who avoid beef) I have known have been mostly, yeah, your stereotype whiterpeople, and a Hindu. Take this with a grain of kosher salt.

Only about one-sixth, IIRC, of American Jews keep kosher regularly, but beef (brisket, anyone?) is a major element of Ashkenazi cuisine (especially considering pork, otherwise a European staple, is off-limits).

Audacious Epigone said...

Jokah,

Vegetarianism does tend to be associated with SWPLs, but Agnostic (I think) pointed out a few years ago that they actually tended towards below average intelligence. I'm not sure how much has changed in the last 15 years, so maybe an increase in 'awareness' about animal rights has resulted in more affluent activist-types taking it up since then, and consequently pushed the average intelligence of herbivores up.

IHTG said...

AE:
Can you show the table with only those who always avoid meat?
I think some of those 'often' responders might be posers.

dearieme said...

You must expect people who are strangers to bacon to be less interested in meat.

Steve Sailer said...

My paternal grandfather from Switzerland was an early 20th Century food faddist, a follower of Kellogg and other theorists. My impression is that people who were really into food-health fads in the first half of the 20th Century tended to be Northern European gentiles. Many wound up in California.

Anonymous said...

on account of [Jews] enjoying an average IQ advantage of nearly one standard deviation over white gentiles



That's factually false, as stated. "Jews" certainly do not enjoy a one standard deviation advantage over white gentiles. There is some evidence that white Jews (aka European Jews) who live in the US have a higher IQ than the white American average, although pinning down how much higher is surprisingly difficult.

Audacious Epigone said...

IHTG,

The percentages of those who always avoid meat:

Protestant--1.6
Catholic--3.3
Jewish--2.4
None--7.5
Other--10.0

These are the strict vegetarians/vegans. I hadn't looked closely at this number alone (I included "often" so we wouldn't just be looking at the strictly vegetarian 'fringe'), but it's worth pointing out that Jews (those with a religious affiliation, anyway) are not substantially different from the Christian majority in rates of vegetarianism.

Anon,

HS was presumably referring to Ashkenazism in the US. If their average IQ is in the 110-112 range, that's proximate enough for me not to get hung up on his line of reasoning.

Anonymous said...

Hunting is pretty much something you have to grow up doing, or you won't take it up.

Obviously we wouldn't expect vegetarians to be hunters, but that doesn't really shed any light on meat eaters who don't hunt.

Anonymous said...

If their average IQ is in the 110-112 range ..


"If" is a wonderful word, isn't it? The ability to hypothesize is what really sets humans apart from the animals.

Anonymous said...

""If" is a wonderful word, isn't it? The ability to hypothesize is what really sets humans apart from the animals."

Jews' SAT scores prior to 1995 (i.e. those accepted by MENSA) roughly converted to 110-111. That's the best data you'll likely find on the subject.