Thursday, September 02, 2010

AE muddles on

It's almost so stereotypical as to be beyond parody, but I've been hooking up with a girl over the last few weeks who constitutes my first interracial experience (no home base, though). She's black, 18, great body, but she's not relationship material for a host of reasons that I won't bore you with (and are pretty predictable anyway). I haven't been as straightforward about my lack of interest in anything commital as I think I should have been, but I've been frustrated over not being able to attract any interest from a gorgeous, Jesus-loving all-American 22 year-old former college cheerleader who lives in the house next to the one I spent my adolescence in (I babysat her a decade ago, but only recently got to know her after she returned to her parents' house upon graduation). Like a pretentious brat, I've justified screwing someone over since the world's screwing me over.

The last exchange I had with the black girl, before seeing her one more time and then cutting off follows. We've always done the typical 'black friends' back and forth, so it's not really as crass as it appears to be.


Chanara: Are we not talking anymore?

AE: What's this royal 'we'?

Chanara: What the fuck is your problem?

AE: 99 problems but I guess this bitch ain't one of them.

Chanara: You guess? Your [*shudder*] ass was pose to have me over a long time ago. We should just get a hotel room and call it a day

AE: I don't do prostitution. Don't mix me up with your customers.

Chanara: Dont make fun of me. You never told me when to come over

AE: YOU'RE wrong, I said you could get in line but YOU'RE too prude.

Chanara: What are you talkin about? You mad cause we havent fucked?

AE: I don't get mad, I just get on. Rolling stone gathers no moss.

Chanara: Ok your disappointed we didnt fuck. your the one thats always working

AE: YOU'RE. God, it's "you're", not "your".

Chanara: Your not going to tell me how to talk

AE: Fine, talking is not what I want to do with you ;)

Chanara: lol let get together soon

AE: Seriously?

Chanara: What

AE: Never mind, we'll let that one slide.

Chanara: What are you talkin about?

AE: Abuse of the English language.

Chanara: Ill show you abuse

AE: On the way :)

[A couple days later, after not responding to multiple texts]

Chanara: You better not be tryin to talk to another bitch because it wont be good

AE: Look, I told you not to wait for me. I think you've got the wrong idea. I really need to sleep now, it's late

Chanara: omg Fuck you. i cant believe this shit

[She's sent a few other texts since, but I've decided not to respond, at least for awhile. I genuinely feel bad about leading her on.]


I'm kind of a mess right now, if the post doesn't make that obvious enough. My first serious high school girlfriend, who got married three years ago, just had a baby. I'm not getting any younger. I'm doing the open book thing here for my own benefit, hoping maybe to tap into the wisdom of readers who've been around a bit longer, whatever their reactions might be. Stop aiming for the stars, secure and invest in something on a mountaintop, stop jacking around, and realize you're a few years from thirty and need to stop jacking around, perhaps?



B Lode said...

My advice is going to read like a string of cliches.

If you meet her, you will know; it will click.

Concentrate on your character, not on making girls like you. The key to building character is building a life with everything but the girl, I think. If you're in shape, employed, clean, and mobile, that's a big part of it.

I assume you won't be telling the next pious all-American beauty you see to get in line or any of that, so I don't doubt the rest of your character.

(I just have to say, certain aspects of promiscuous culture are pretty odd. Chanara is telling you can't talk to other women but she's not sleeping with you? Isn't there such a thing as getting to know people? But I don't claim to understand black culture anyway.)

Meet plenty of women and be yourself. When talking to a pretty woman, it helps to have another pretty woman on your mind so you won't seem like you need either of them. Then you'll seem more relaxed and less eager and dependent. "Eager and dependent" either adds up to "creepy" or "puppyish" which are both deal-breakers.

Narrow your search to women within cognitive striking distance. (You wrote long ago that that was your goal; it was very wise.) Can you go to book clubs or something? Mensa? Do you know any smart married women with presumably smart friends?

So anyway, there's my string of cliches. I would be a washout except fate dropped my wife into my city (to repay for not telling me about the dot-come boom, probably). There was no trying after I met her - after about an hour of conversation (love at first chat) ... we knew.

Anonymous said...

Chanara and a cheerleader? That says it all right there.

Find some brainy, nice girl and have 3-5 children. Do your part to carry on civilization.

civilization said...

"Do your part to carry on civilization."

Hey man, I don't want you to feel obligated to carry me on or anything. If you've got other stuff going on this decade, that's cool. Just stop by next decade and we'll catch up.

Jokah Macpherson said...

I'm not too qualified to hold forth on this sort of thing but two points come to mind:

-The ex-cheerleader hasn't had time to show interest in you because she's been busy screwing a light bulb into the ceiling fan.

-I don't care if it's in jest or not, Chanara is way to comfortable using the word "fuck" and that's -1 on the DMV test. I don't think you were wrong to let her go.

Anonymous said...

Have you tried relationship game?

Anonymous said...

Seriously, AE, do you talk openly about wanting to get married in the presence of eligible smart women? Women think no guys want to get married so they just drift till they get old enough to be desperate. If you say out loud you are wife shopping, you will hear them say they aren't ready which is just a lie/sh-- test. You needn't imply that you are somehow set on them, just that you are seriously looking. That will make their ears prick up. They will transform before your very eyes.

Anonymous said...

Are you serious, AE? This is all for real? If so, I can understand why you aren't attracting decent women. What the hell do you think you have to offer?

Give us women credit for being able to spot an asshole.

Anonymous said...

Virtually any chick aged 18-22 wants to get married, but these days it is so socially unacceptable that she dare not let on that she wants to. Obviously fathers, mothers, pastors etc, should be dead set against these lovely young creatures dating and having boyfriends, but are too brow beaten by our culture to state the obvious. So young intelligent women are constantly bombarded with the feminist BS that they need to get careers but heaven forbid, no babies. Being the naturally compliant, submissive critters that they are, they go along with it as long as they can encouraged by mom, dad and pastor to go find themselves at college, where instead they find the cock carousel.

Ask yourself honestly, would a contemporary suburban family be thrilled if their gorgeous 19 year old were engaged to a 30 year old surgeon making $200k? or 28 year old engineer making 90K? If not their brains are infected with the feminist virus.

In any normal thinking society, anyone could see these as obviously good matches. Since fat ugly feminists can't marry these guys, they settled for making it unacceptable for the sweet young things to marry them as well.

Devon said...

Shake the preoccupation with how quickly you're running up on thirty. We're roughly in the same position, I gather, from previous exchanges we've had (the "roughly" comes from you making more cheddar than I do), and you should just know that we have time. There's no reason we can't still get attractive, interesting women in the 22-25 age range post-30, if my brothers are any indication, and, in terms of the larger mortality question and making efficient use of your time before you die, just reflect upon that fact that, five years ago, you were mid-way through university, then think of the ocean of time and events that have passed and transpired since then.

Patience is a virtue, and helps maintain your frame.

Anonymous said...

Hey man. Sounds like you need the experience of someone who has been there. Cliches are not gonna do it for you. I recommend you read this blog (not mine):

Anonymous said...

Has it occurred to you that you have no charm? This blog entry is an indicator of that. That you are not good-looking? (I wouldn't know unless you post a pic).

Anonymous said...

Haters on the wall, looking all mad.

I assume the point of this post is frustration from ennui and satiety, and wondering what's next with women?

OneSTDV said...

Well look on the bright side: the black girl probably hasn't found this website.

Audacious Epigone said...

A genuine thanks for the thoughts. Every time I do one of these self-indulgent posts, I'm embarrassed by my self absorption the next morning, yet they always have utility for me.

B Lode,

Re: concentrating on character, I've never known myself as well as I do now. Change will require going against what is instinctive.

I know she'd sleep with me if I brought her to my house, but I don't want her to know where I live, at least until she gets over the infatuation. She was giving the stiff arm at her place (she lives with her mother and sister).

Re: the narrowing search, when I really get serious, I need to join an upscale church in the area. I know that's where the gold is to be found.

Coulda woulda did-a! Nothing to be sold short there.

"Chanara and a cheerleader? That says it all right there."

Lol, thanks for that.


Let me apologize in advance for sleeping through your funeral. If only I were not such a dreamer!


Yes, it's off-putting. If I remember correctly, Steve Sailer has pointed out that Linda Gottfredson has said something to the effect that a quick test of intelligence is an affirmative answer to a question about liking classical music. F-bombs around people you don't know (and know well, for that matter), is a similar indicator going the other way.


Have to get the relationship first. How to get someone's attention when you don't cross paths unless you're visiting your parents (and even then, the best I'm doing is making it look like chance)? I'm pretty confident I'm able to read her well enough to know that whatever my behavior, it's not going to get there.

Audacious Epigone said...


It's not something I've made much effort to explore, but I think you might be onto something. A friend of mine who is 25 just got engaged (to a guy who is 36). A mutual 'friend' (who the girl doesn't really like) was talking with her about her younger sister (who is 20), and when he said he'd love to get after the sister, the 25 yo girl said her sister had standards. I acted as though she were indicating I was a suitable match for the sister (who I've not met), and asked when I'd be introduced to the sister.

That was a week ago, and twice when I've been with her in a group and the subject of her engagement has come up followed by someone asking "who's next" and her insisting it's me with her sister.

I've always reacted with, "yeah, I'll get married sometime. It's going to be shotgun for sure, though" or something to that effect when it comes up around girls. The cliche about every girl dreaming about her wedding day may be nearer the top of younger girls' minds than I realized.


I'm not an asshole. I give people what they should expect to get based on how they behave and on who they are.


Yes, college (4-year out-of-city university, anyway) is bad news. A girl I was close to until about three months ago fell off the radar screen when she started her freshman year a few weeks ago. My fb feed shows she's let the wild flowers bloom in a matter of days. It's too bad.


Great frame of mind. Hell, professionally I get "kid" and "young buck", etc. That I'm primarily interested in girls in the 17-21 yo range has to skew my perspective.


The most recent post is about finding a way back to enjoying the thrill of the chase. I think that's exactly the wrong thing for yours truly--I've peaked athletically, I've had and lost great girls, I was even one of the best MTG players around with shroud control until the meta changed and my rogue success quickly became mediocre. Seems like finding a way out of the rut by doing something different, not reigniting the old spark, is what I'm after.


Hah, the chance of anyone who I cannot necessarily trust (ie, who I know personally) who knows either of those girls stumbling across this blog, and reading through this post is incredibly small.

Anonymous said...

My reasoned guess is that the fact you once babysat for the cheerleader is a big reason why she's not interested in you. It may have been a decade ago, but she might be (understandably, if I may say) concerned that it would be a bit creepy to get involved with you.

I'll also say that you ought to give Chanara another chance. The one concern is that the age different (27(?) vs. 18) is a bit large, though it shouldn't be insurmountable.


OneSTDV said...

Regarding the attraction to good Christian girls:

I don't recall whether you're atheist or not? I'm thinking you lean that way at least.

SFG said...

You can pick up girls with your MTG skills? Wow, culture's changed since I was young.

Anonymous said...

Why the obsession to get married so soon? Unless it's someone extraordinary you can't afford to pass up, work on yourself instead.

These bitches you're describing ain't shit, to be blunt.


Anonymous said...

Hi AE,

Something different to get you out of that rut is exactly what's on offer at

It's about relationship game... mostly. Not so much about the thrill of the chase, as about keeping that thrill post kill. For everyone involved.

Plus, he's at your IQ level, which I think you'll find rare in the PUA-sphere. You should read him just to admire how his textual density parallels your own.

Anonymous said...

"I've always reacted with, "yeah, I'll get married sometime. It's going to be shotgun for sure, though" or something to that effect when it comes up around girls. The cliche about every girl dreaming about her wedding day may be nearer the top of younger girls' minds than I realized."

The thing is if you are really serious about landing a truly beautiful young girl with IQ 130 range of really good character, you need to come off as confident, cultured, not rude or crass. You need to project who you really are. The "yeah, I'll get married sometime" projects fear not confidence. Whereas indicating that you want to get married, but you have such high standards it is tough to find a person of good character who would be acceptable totally changes the atmosphere surrounding the topic. Females are naturally submissive and compliant. If you lead, she will follow.

Ask her to go with you to look for houses to buy. Tell her you have been considering buying a new place and would like her opinion. Let her watch you interact as an adult with the realtor. Invite her to parties at your professional organizations etc. Let her see the respect you get from your colleagues. Invite her to your friend's or cousin's wedding. Let her see the quality of character in your family. All of these are invitations she won't get from boys and they project your true status as a fun, but calm and judicious grown man. This is far more attractive than one liners etc. This is not short term night club game. Don't be afraid to gently let her know she is being immature. If remember being recently married about 22, he was about 30. I was suggesting some foolish idea and he said to me, "Uh, huh, I have got a mortgage and wife to raise." Challenge her to be serious. You will be surprised at what you get. This is only effective with really smart quality women. If it doesn't work. It is her limitation not yours, move on. If she is the right one, she will realize her loss and will come running back. Then you can decide if she is good enough for you, not the other way around.

Anonymous said...

I don't want to get too far ahead, but I assume you're dating with the intention of marrying at some point. Marriage is the most important event in your life. It will not only affect your future happiness, but it will determine your family trajectory for all generations to come. There are very few acts that people do that really matter to others in the future (amassing money is surprisingly ephemeral).

The critical importance of marriage is why better families in the world take great pains to vet potential spouses. This is often done by sending children to schools or institutions where they're more likely to meet such people. Love and loyalty are more important than intelligence in a relationship, but those aren't mutually exclusive traits. If that doesn't work, arranged introductions both help break the ice and select for more desirable characteristics (even in the US among a certain class of people).

It's fine to keep friends with the two you shared, but I suspect they're more a product of anxiety than love.

As trite as this may sound, school clubs, extracurricular activities, and co-workers are often the best ways to meet other people. Once you have a few female acquaintance, then it's relatively easy to meet other girls through their network of friends. It's an investment in time to find the right person, but you seem conscientious enough to appreciate its significance.

Also, you'd be surprised how important discipline is for how well a lady ages. Less attractive girls can and do change over time; school reunions are a common reminder of that.

Someone with your disposition may be best with a girl who doesn't take you too seriously, imho.

Audacious Epigone said...


Chanara sent me the following text last night after a silly one that asked if I was mad at her (neither of them prompted or responded to by me):

Its not that i dont wanna fuck you cause i do. Its just that i need to know you have feelings for me

Now that's creepy. That doesn't indicate relationship material at all (I don't mean to be critical--obviously you're only able to go off my descriptions, but I know I'm right on this).


Ha, no. That's a realm I keep entirely separate from skirt chasing. I was whining about areas of my life where I feel like I've peaked and am either on a plateau or rolling back downhill.


I'm a year away from a decade difference in age. That's a gap that is dangerously close to being generational. I feel like they're going to have to start moving up in age with me, which makes me feel like I'm going to be squandering precious time, and soon I'll be unable to strike while the iron is hot (ie before she hits her mid-twenties).


I think your advice is applicable to an extremely small sliver of the female population. That said, the sliver is pure gold. Thanks.


Yes, if you're not one of the few on the who's who list of historical significant figures, your contribution to the future is essentially entirely tied up in your offspring, which makes the subject so personally serious.

Audacious Epigone said...


I'd describe myself as an agnostic with Pascalian sympathies.

OneSTDV said...

I'd describe myself as an agnostic with Pascalian sympathies.

I'm assuming you're referring to Pascal's Wager - a statement concerning the utility of God belief not the veracity.

I think most atheists would agree, not that it would sway me even the tiniest amount though.

Anonymous said...

Chanara sent me the following text last night after a silly one that asked if I was mad at her (neither of them prompted or responded to by me):

Its not that i dont wanna fuck you cause i do. Its just that i need to know you have feelings for me

Now that's creepy. That doesn't indicate relationship material at all

That doesn't sound creepy at all. It sounds instead as if she wants to have sex only in the context of an actual relationship rather than a pump-and-dump situation.

Her race also might be a factor. She could be worried that if she agrees to sex too soon, you'll consider her some sort of wild ghetto ho.


Anonymous said...

"Its not that i dont wanna fuck you cause i do. Its just that i need to know you have feelings for me"

"Now that's creepy. That doesn't indicate relationship material at all"

"That doesn't sound creepy at all. It sounds instead as if she wants to have sex only in the context of an actual relationship rather than a pump-and-dump situation."

No, not creepy at all. It is refined and lovely. Positively charming. A clear indicator of good upbringing and discernment.

Son of Brock Landers said...

Looks of good comments already. Tons of cliches forthcoming: if you're a bit of a mess right now, you're not ready for a serious relationship. You need to do what you want, not what you think is expected of you. Thirty is not the end of the world, and seriously, who cares if an old HS gf got married and had a kid. If you measure yourself vs. others, you will never be happy. Be happy that as a man, you can still date 22-25 yo women in your 30s, which you say you are a few years away from.

I'm married & 30, but I dated plenty prior to meeting my wife. I was always 'myself' and now reading sites like Roissy's I see I did enough Alpha things to keep women interested. One thing to keep in mind is: will you do these 'game' things with the all-american maiden? When would you turn it lower? Didn't you post a while back about hooking up with some sweet young thing after a concert? Yeah, the rest of us married guys are 'so happy' those days are gone.

Figure your sh*t out now and the right one will come along. I enjoy your blog. Thanks for posting.

Audacious Epigone said...

Son of Brock Landers,

If I were an augur and the future looked good, I'd be able to enjoy myself more fully now. So I'll do my best to assume that it all falls into place sometime down the road. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

> Whereas indicating that you want to get married, but you have such high standards it is tough to find a person of good character who would be acceptable totally changes the atmosphere surrounding the topic.

Yeah, it changes you into a pretentious dork.

Anonymous said...

Chanara talks like most 18 year old girls these days, unfortunately. "Class" is the last thing on their mind, in more ways than one.

I think you're probably giving off too many beta vibes.

Anonymous said...

"Yeah, it changes you into a pretentious dork."

Only in the eyes of those who aren't marriage material.

Besides, a nice girl feels the exact same way. She wants to get married too, and agrees that it is hard to find a good person.

Chicks who have been rode hard and put to bed wet know they aren't the quality person that another quality person wants and naturally resent those who prefer quality.

Trouble said...

Who in their right mind would let a male babysit their 12 y.o. daughter?!?!?

Veracitor said...

I wish I had your problem!

1. Push a little harder and make it with Chanara at least once or you'll be kicking yourself for the rest of your life, trust me. If you're gonna dump her, dump her after, not before. (Don't worry that you're going to "ruin" her, she's not a virgin, or if she is, you're a lot better for a first than the syphilitic brute who'll pick her up on the rebound.)

(Don't want to bring her to your place? Invite her on an overnight trip; book only one hotel room.)

2. Don't marry Chanara, because you don't want reversion toward the mean to give you disappointing children. Also, blacks mature faster and age faster, so while she's incredibly hot now she won't last you as long as a nice white girl. (That sort of pneumatic figure with lots of T&A and lordosis is irresistible, yes, but only until it gets buried in lard which it surely will after the second kid if not the first.)

3. If you can't get the attention of the cheerleader promptly, move on. Sure, she's good looking, bubbly, athletic in a feminine way... but if she's not interested and you can't spark some interest promptly you're wasting your time. She must have friends: go after them. You may get one or envy may prompt the cheerleader to pay attention to you.

Bonus suggestion: arrange for the cheerleader to see you with Chanara! (Be sure your hands are on the lovely Miss C.) This will have three good effects: (a) the cheerleader will see you as a stud, not a babysitter; (b) the cheerleader will be deeply impressed by the fact you're simultaneously so studly you can get a black girl (implicitly competing with black men, who the cheerleader knows-- from associating with ball players-- are very masculine if not very smart) AND you are so politically advanced you can get a black girl; (c) the cheerleader will become jealous and competitive (cheerleaders usually have a competitive streak) and will pay more attention to you.

Audacious Epigone said...


Thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate them very much.

Anonymous said...

Jesus Christ you're pathetic.

Black Sea said...

You're freaking out because you're approaching thirty. Frankly, once you get there, you'll realize that it's just another day in your life, and "crossing that threshold" really doesn't change anything that substantive about you. Yeah, you're getting older; so is everybody else. That nubile 21 year old you're lusting after is going to be 29 pretty quickly, and before she know's it, 39.

Face up to the fact that, apart from the taboo-breaking appeal, you're bored witless the black chick. In my experience, screwing women you feel that way about is ultimately a drag for everybody concerned. You'll wind up feeling worse about yourself than you do about her, if you have a sort of traditional moral perspective, which it seems you do.

As a far as the cheerleader, I pretty much agree with Peter; it may just creep her out to see you as anything other than an older brother figure. Deal with it.

When I was considering getting married (which I now am), I went out with a group of friends and mentioned that my then-girlfriend and I were talking about this. One guy (now divorced from his first wife) simply asked, "Does she want to marry you?" I said, "Yeah."

That may not sound like a very significant question, but when the person you're with makes it pretty clear that they want to marry you, a lot of the game-playting falls away. Not all of it, of course, but nothing's perfect.

It sounds like you're realizing that you're not a kid anymore. Eventually, a woman will come along who will see that as well, and snatch you up. When it comes to marriage, women do most of the choosing anyway, which makes sense, since they devote a hell of a lot more time and energy to thinking about it than we do.