Saturday, April 17, 2010

Pride as a deadly sin? Hah!

++Addition++OneSTDV responds, pointing out that "pride" is not a semantically ideal descriptor for what might be better characterized as gay self-assertion. Gay pride parades are not billed as a celebration of the artistic commitments of gays (thanks for reducing putative supermodels to emaciates objectively less attractive than many of the next door girls I know!), but instead an unsolicited broadcasting of the bohemian bacchanalia one should expect when both parties involved in the sexual union have Y chromosomes.

He also asks the following:
But is this concept even rational? Can an individual completely removed or essentially inconsequential in bringing forth these accomplishments rationally feel pride?
A separate issue is whether or not that question is necessarily relevant. When French military commander Henri Gouraud said something to the effect of "Behold Saladin, we have returned," after putting down an uprising in Syria, was it rational for the French troops to beam with pride at the 'accomplishments' of their forefathers in having established the Kingdom of Jerusalem 800 years earlier? Probably not, but that pride presumably carried with it inspirational, beneficial (from the colonial perspective) consequences.

---

Apparently, there was a "Pride Parade" on the main drag just off the University of Kansas' campus last week. On my facebook news feed, I noticed a friend had a status update that read "Yay pride week!" She's bisexual with a healthy libido--the kind of girl who screams to be bedded, not an ugly, serious LGBT-activist type. So I commented:
White pride, huh? I'm glad you don't hate everything about yourself ;)
I was making an inside remark from our time together, and as I knew would be the case she didn't take any umbrage from it at all, but several other comments expressed very predictable disgust at the idea, justifying my comment in a general sense. Those responding with hostility (all white I think, though I know none of the people who generated them), clearly were appalled by the idea of embracing a white racial identity.

Their collective opinion is shared by most people in contemporary American society, at least in public. Pointing out that vociferous, in-your-face adulation of sexual deviancy is more acceptable than a public proclamation that being of European descent is nothing to be ashamed of is hardly insightful on my part, I know. But the fact that "pride" is short-hand for gay pride, the most acceptable variety of self-celebration whites allow themselves to engage in, reveals the pathological nature of today's Western popular culture, which embraces and gladly cultivates a bohemian image (as the nearby typical photo from another gay pride parade illustrates) our forefathers prudently found themselves perpetually at war with, while disdaining a celebration of the dead white males that societies everywhere (most especially our own!) should be venerating.

12 comments:

Mark said...

Firstly, my friend, if you had grown up with the shame of being gay, as have I, you would understand the psychological need for the whole gay pride thing. It isn't all narcissism. It's also about making the statement that we refuse to walk around ashamed of the way nature made us.

As for self-loathing white people, I hope you have informed them that 1) there is nothing objectively wrong with being proud of one's heritage, even if that heritage is European, and 2) they only have the responses they do because they have been conditioned by society to have those responses (i.e. they are sheep).

Having said that, it is worth pointing out that white ethnic pride is not taboo the way general white pride is. Someone can be publicly proud of being Italian, Greek, German, Irish, etc... and not be subject to to approbation. WASP-pride is a little more unusual, but I think that's just because WASP culture is to a much greater extent just American culture, and most WASPs identify as Americans first.

Anonymous said...

Having said that, it is worth pointing out that white ethnic pride is not taboo the way general white pride is. Someone can be publicly proud of being Italian, Greek, German, Irish, etc... and not be subject to to approbation. WASP-pride is a little more unusual, but I think that's just because WASP culture is to a much greater extent just American culture, and most WASPs identify as Americans first.

In my experience, pride in English, German, or Scandinavian descent is under about the same injunction that white pride is. Greek pride and Irish pride are just not in the same category. "Proud Nordics March!" will have a completely different reaction from "Proud Armenians March!"

Tell someone you're X% German and I'll wager they will retort that there is no reason to have said that, that it doesn't make you better than anybody else, that you should probably learn some history for a change, etc.

The epicenter of genetic shame lies apparently somewhere near the Frisian coast.

Halvorson said...

In my experience, pride in English, German, or Scandinavian descent is under about the same injunction that white pride is. Greek pride and Irish pride are just not in the same category. "Proud Nordics March!" will have a completely different reaction from "Proud Armenians March!"

This just isn't so. There are a whole host of ethnic German events held each year in the Midwest.

http://www.midwestweekends.com/plan_a_trip/shopping_eating/dining/oktoberfests_in_midwest.html

I'm from a rural town in Minnesota with a mixed Norwegian/German population and every year the town has separate "Norsefest" and Oktoberfest celebrations to draw in tourists. I've never met anyone who believes the events are inappropriate.

The reason "Nordic pride" events would draw criticism is that Nordic isn't an ethnic group, it's a racial classification. Nordics don't have a common culture and some Nordics don't much care for other kinds of Nordics.

Tell someone you're X% German and I'll wager they will retort that there is no reason to have said that, that it doesn't make you better than anybody else, that you should probably learn some history for a change, etc.

This is just ridiculous and any person from the Midwest could tell you that it's not the case. I've probably told about a hundred people over the course of my life that I'm 7/8th Norwegian and 1/8th German (people are naturally interested about these things) and have yet to have anyone lecture me about racial sensitivity. The idea that a majority of whites are ashamed of their heritage is a fantasy promoted by WN types to guilt trip conservative whites into supporting their idea of "white pride", which usually involves putting down blacks.

Anonymous said...

The reason "Nordic pride" events would draw criticism is that Nordic isn't an ethnic group, it's a racial classification. Nordics don't have a common culture and some Nordics don't much care for other kinds of Nordics.

Hmmm.
'"The reason 'Black pride' events would draw criticism is that Black isn't an ethnic group, it's a racial classification. Blacks don't have a common culture and some Blacks don't much care for other kinds of Blacks."'
Doesn't hold water.

The idea that a majority of whites are ashamed of their heritage is a fantasy promoted by WN types to guilt trip conservative whites into supporting their idea of "white pride", which usually involves putting down blacks.

As you've said, you're far from the coastal areas where the media elites live and where most aspects of white self-perception originate. The people of flyover country are despised by the staff of the Daily Show, the NYT editorial board, most screenwriters, etc.

The version of history we are told is designed to make white Americans ashamed of themselves, and it works. White people mock "white and nerdy" people. White people refuse to take action against black-on-white crime. White people refuse to stop mass immigration from Mexico. White history teachers refuse to teach about the African-Muslim invasions of Spain and Italy previous the Crusades. White history teachers gloss over the 13th Amendment, and who its sponsors were. White Americans commonly say that they have no right to live or even visit North America, because they are not (genetically related to) its original inhabitants.

I envy midwesterners. On the whole, the impression I get from this thread is that the upper Midwest is to Germanics as San Francisco, Seattle, and Greenwich Village are to gays. The difference is: gays have a consciousness of group interests that whites lack. I'll wager that Fred Phelps is much more famous in the Castro District than Susan Sontag, Amiri Baraka, or Noel Ignatiev are in the upper Midwest.

Again, this is based on my experience, but it's interesting that you have protested my version of my experience with white shame but not Mark's recounting of his experience with gay shame.

Anonymous said...

The reason the superficial acceptance of ethnic pride is combined with injunctions against racial price is: it leaves most American whites with nothing to be proud of. Most of us are mixed. Only recent immigrants and a few anomalies would have anything to be proud of. Jewishness, Blackness, "Native Americanness", etc. are protected by tacit one-drop rules; European national origins have no such protection.

Anonymous said...

Mark,

The pride parades I have seen (SF) are excuses for childish and yes, narcissistic behavior.

So, are ya saying that "nature made" you with those fairy wings and all? Rings on your c___k?

Be real. You want respect? You certainly don't get it with those parades. Straight people, even your friends, aren't laughing with you, but at you when those parades get as outlandish as they do.

Passing that stuff off as satire doesn't cut it.

OneSTDV said...

I respond to this post here:

http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2010/04/reasoning-and-practical-consequences-of.html

Anonymous said...

But the fact that "pride" is short-hand for gay pride, the most acceptable variety of self-celebration whites allow themselves to engage in

I think you're reaching a bit with this one. Small sample size and all that. Although I appreciate the general thrust of your argument.

Mark Wethman said...

"So, are ya saying that "nature made" you with those fairy wings and all? Rings on your c___k?"

HA!

You're right, I should have drawn a clear distinction between gay pride and gay pride parades.

I'm gay. I'm proud of the enormous contributions gays have made and continue to make to the arts and culture.

I do not wear fairy wings at gay pride parades. Nor do I see those who do as contributing much to society.

"Be real. You want respect? You certainly don't get it with those parades. Straight people, even your friends, aren't laughing with you, but at you when those parades get as outlandish as they do."

No argument here.

Anyway, regarding ethnic pride among whites on the east coast, I've noticed that there's a great deal of ethnic pride among Italians and Irish in my home state of New Jersey. (Try telling Italians they shouldn't be proud of their heritage... they'll look at you like you're insane.)

Audacious Epigone said...

Mark,

If only leftists would grant that nature does more than make people either straight or gay, but apparently it stops at exactly that!

In seriousness, the gay pride parades are intentionally offensive to the tastes of the heterosexual majority, and it celebrates a behavior that deviates more from the cultural mainstream than a celebration of European heritage would.

Re: various white ethnic pride, the comment on recent immigrant forebearers is well said. There is a hierarchy among whites, and just like the hierarchy at the international level, within Europe, the more reasons for actual pride in one's ancestry, the less acceptable it is to be proud of that ancestry. St. Patrick's Day is largely an excuse for a large swath of whites to express some pride in who they are. Italians don't have a nationally recognized day, but being Italian is better than being German. Those of English descent are at the very bottom.

Anon,

When she said "pride week", I instantly knew what kind of pride she was talking about. It may not be universally recognized, but it's pretty widely known, I think.

Anonymous said...

Paul Gottfried has been teaching at colleges and universities for about forty years. The following is from his latest book, Encounters My Life Nixon, Marcuse and Other Friends and Teachers, p. 113 :
(...)
...it may be useful to add here my own painfully accumulated impressions of the apparently forgotten ethnicity of my students. Ethnic and denominational differences do not exist for them, at least on the surface. It is considered downright gauche to mention such differences, except when dwelling on the suffering of blacks and other authorized victim groups or the bigotry of whites, particularly those who bear the stigma of residing in the American South.
(...)
I think the above is a lot better assessment of social reality at the macro level than what's going on in small Midwestern towns with a median age of fifty.Those places probably haven't fully assimilated all the latest advances of cultural Marxism.

Anonymous said...

Tom Wolfe once said that it took PC brainwashing to make Americans treat Gays nicely. From what I gather, the US was about the most homophobic place on the planet until the PC reeducation process was completed. Now I guess it's Iran that's the champ-although we've all heard that actual homosexual behavior has always been rife in most of the Muslim world.

Surprisingly, Gore Vidal wrote that he didn't really experience
homophobia in the US until he came back from WW2.

...but I think that's just because WASP culture is to a much greater extent just American culture, and most WASPs identify as Americans first.

If you dig deeply you can no doubt find survival of folkways derived
from the British Isles in America.
But popular culture-the only kind of culture Americans consciously recognize-is more Afro-Jewish than WASP. The question is how much this Afro-Jewish pop culture has been Anglicized by assimilating the cruder elements of English-Scots-Irish lower class culture.