Tuesday, May 13, 2008

Treat the girl like a hill to be taken?

The topic of "what women want" isn't one I spend much time contemplating. I tend to think the (non-post modern feminist) conventional wisdom regarding what is desired in a man more-or-less gets it right: Financial success, self-confidence, good personal hygiene (including dress), intelligence, being one standard deviation above the mean in height, a symetrical and handsome face, somewhat older (in the range of 2-8 years), a toned upper body, the more athletic the better, etc.

But I've put myself on a sort of self-imposed relationship hiatus, to attain financial security and sow my other wild oats, like catching up on my RPG pile and biking the terrain trains once chugged across. So I'm aware I might not know what I'm talking about. At Al Fin, I saw Dennis Mangan mention this post from Roissy, who I've seen commenting in other areas of the blogosphere I frequent but who sticks in my mind because I like her, er, his, name*. It suggests as much to me, that I am indeed uninformed (I toned the vulgarity down):

What is it that separates those select few men from all the rest? The ones who wield illimitable power to inflame the desires of women?

The key to their power is not money or sports cars or beach houses or post graduate degrees or 50 inch plasma TVs or chocolate covered strawberries on a bed of rose petals or any of that. All of that is incidental and is only important to the extent that it improves your state of mind. No, the real source of this power is already within you. It is how you SEE YOURSELF. It is your decision to move through the world without apology, to set aside complaining for decisive action, to let your brass balls do your talking for you.

The quintessential masculine quality women can’t resist is SUPREME UNSHAKEABLE CONFIDENCE. You can be poor, out of shape, stupid, unemployed, addicted to drugs, and meet every one of society’s standards for LOSERNESS but if you radiate those confident vibes that say you are PERFECTLY PLEASED WITH YOURSELF you will get laid ALL THE TIME. And the kinds of girls who get wet for such men aren’t just bar sluts. Smart women, women with high self-esteems and MBAs and, yes, even — ESPECIALLY – HARDCORE FEMINISTS will crave the man who exudes such power and happily take it if it means he will grace her with the pleasure of his company for a little while longer.

My first reaction was to smile at yet another apparent truism contained in the satirical pleasantries of the pre-11th season Simpsons:

Bart: Face it, Lis--men are dogs. The worse we treat you, the more you want us.
Lisa: That's not what dogs do!
I wonder if those men would be even more desirable if they took that confidence one step further, saying, "To hell with whether or not the girl wants it, she's going to get it, and she's going to like it, my balls being as brass as my knuckles!" Would that "inflame" female desires even more? As much as I detested those Evremonde brothers in A Tale of Two Cities, maybe I should've embraced a dark admiration for them instead!

When I dwelled on her post a little longer though, I realized my own personal experience seems to commend it. My high school and college days are tales of getting the friends of the girl I was after. I have a tendency to deify the girls I like, acting the chivalrous and selfless older brother interested only in a platonic relationship. That's not really my natural personality, which is more arrogantly flirtatious in a playfully insulting way. Simply put, the latter has been much more effective in reeling them in. The result was several flings that lasted a couple of weeks or even days, and having been asked out by more girls than I've asked out.

I've known for years that genuflection hasn't been the road to success. My longest relationship, lasting a little over a year, was with a girl I did manage to convince (over several months) with the weak strategy, and she was very candid about it later. She'd thought I was cute and funny enough, but that I was so distant she had no idea I had any interest in her at all and was surprised when I asked to get serious. Of course, looking back she now loved the approach!

Another girl I was disinclined (okay, afraid) to let my feelings be known to crashed her car into another parked car as she was reading the note asking her out that I'd left on her windshield! (If anyone's still reading this, I'm really going to get myself in trouble--a consequence of that sacrosanct devotion is that I'm still in contact with almost every serious girlfriend I've ever had. On the other hand, I can't even get my own mother to read the blog on a regular basis, and virtually every comment I've ever had appears to have come from a male--hardly a unique phenomenon in the blogosphere--so I'm probably safe).

It's not just a matter of making the easier catch, either. My aesthetics are sort of eccentric. I've always been fond of coordinated, athletic girls with tomboyish tendencies--not the 5'8 blonde with long legs in designer jeans but the 5'2 gymnast in sweatpants**.

So Roissy's advice (or revelation), to the extent that it's more-or-less accurate (maybe it's just self-projection), came years too late. In half a decade, when I plan to have a wife in the sights, she won't fit that 'swoonable' profile that Roissy attaches in a general way to most women.

Then again, when I look back at how much time I squandered, even as things were, that I could've used to prep myself for graduate school in one of the sciences or to make myself familiar with the history I'm only now learning, maybe it's not overdue. In any case, the chivalrous distance I maintain is surely more the result of some psychological insecurity than any noble intention on my part, and as such, is not too malleable. Maybe it's what I should do. Won't be what I will do, though.

*This post came out of the assumption that Roissy was female. Naturally, a guy telling other guys what girls want should be, ceteris paribus, treated with more skepticism than should a girl telling guys what girls want.

** That's meant my naive initial image of shy abstention has usually been overly optimistic.

7 comments:

al fin said...

Roissy hits on an important factor in "what women want"--male confidence.

But in the real world (not just pick-ups), confidence has to be based on something. Most desirable women have learned to be smart enough to look behind a confident facade to get an assessment of a person's real-world record of success.

Of course all the women who fall in love with prison inmates and (currently) out-of-prison scam artists provide plenty of backing to Roissy's assertion.

Different women fall for different lines and facades. For long term happiness, it's best to become the person you want to be, then let women see the confidence that comes naturally from being that person.

agnostic said...

You're not that old, though, so don't worry; it's not normal to take a calculating eye to these things until mid-late 20s or later. Before 25, your mind is still too drunk with adolescent hormones to see things very clearly.

Financial success, height, handsome face, and athleticism actually don't matter a whole lot. Exuding confidence, lacking interest in her interest in you, and ruthlessly attending to small imbalances in your interest levels (like playfully mocking her if you sense you're more interested in her than she is in you), are the most important things.

If you have at least one of those other things, that's enough. The infamous Mystery, for example, isn't very good-looking, is ectomorphic, and wasn't rich or accomplished, but is 6'5 and pretty smart. Neil Strauss is pretty short and ectomorphic, but is great at humor. So, flavors of alpha.

I've always been fond of coordinated, athletic girls with tomboyish tendencies--not the 5'8 blonde with long legs in designer jeans but the 5'2 gymnast in sweatpants

Ha, you'd better get yourself to the local hip-hop / r&b dance club. That's where those girls go -- showing off their gymnastic skills of course. Be prepared, though, for some booty-shakin' like that girl in a clip I just posted (that girl, Patty Mayo, just happens to be a shortie gymnast. YouTube her name).

agnostic said...

And don't be afraid of hip-hop clubs -- within the past 2 or 3 years, the gangsta garbage has pretty much gone out of fashion. Now it's back to the hedonist, "lover not a fighter" rap of the pre-gangsta era. And the r&b stuff isn't even that hedonistic at all, though it's very danceable.

Audacious Epigone said...

AF,

Well put.

Agnostic,

Well then I'm just around the bend, I suppose!

Really though, it's more of a curiosity to me. I'm determined not to be involved in any more relationships excepting the woman who becomes my wife, and I'm looking a couple of years out on that. My 'hedonistic' rushes come from wind sprints and RPGs (seriously)--give me those things, and I can squelch the desire for a smoke, a drink, initimate contact, or the bowl of M&Ms.

I'm pretty confident that three girls who are serious friends would be taken by a full-court press, and I meet multiple new people virtually every single day--surely at least one will be foolish enough to come my way! Time can always steal away, but fortunately my work forces me to be a very strong speaker, I take care of myself physically, I have no debt (including my house), a 401, a self-managed equity account, and a money-market; security (I'm also one parsimonious son-of-a-gun) should be achievable by the time we're ready for the first child.

Pride cometh before the fall though. Thus I'm trying to soak up everything I can from active players like yourself :) It can't hurt.

agnostic said...

I wouldn't say I'm a player -- if I targeted women over 25, it would be a different story. The reason I club so much is that, aside from the workout and liking dancing, it forces me to work on my interactions with girls in a romantic or sexual context.

You can meet lots of girls every day, but if you're not working on your Game, you're not getting much out of it. Do you read Thursday's blog? Look at how many dates he got just by using Game. It's not like he wasn't meeting people before, or that I wasn't. We just weren't converting a meeting into anything real.

Imagine if I said I wanted to play on a decent club basketball team in a few years, but I'm not really going to practice at all in the meantime. You don't have to have lots of casual sex in directionless relationships in the next 2 or 3 years, but you have to be doing something. It will strengthen you for when you go out looking for a wife for real.

Sure, a woman might be impressed by your athleticism and job, but there are going to be lots of other guys who are athletic, 6'2, and make good money vying for her attention.

Before studying Game, I could easily attract a girl to dance in a nightclub due to my looks, but converting that into a 30-minute conversation where I get to display my positive qualities, make her chase me, learn who she is aside from her looks, etc. -- that took Game.

You should really give it a try. Ask Thursday; he's basically following the same path as you.

Audacious Epigone said...

Agnostic,

Re: keeping 'toned', you're right. I don't like to admit it, but now I sometimes find myself pretty uncomfortable around girls I'm attracted to. I can't remember that being a problem since junior high, even though I'm a more 'captivating' speaker now than I have been at any other time previously. It's from a lack of serious practice. I don't have any problem flirting with girls I'm not interested in. I just need to work on dipping my feet in again when around those I find myself attracted to. It won't require any additional time commitment. Thanks for prodding me, I'm resolved now!

And because I'm committed to holding off for at least a few more years (ideally I'd like to marry in my early thirties), I find myself sometimes getting irritated by friends of both genders striking up relationships, especially when they tell me about them. That's inexcusable and something I try to squelch.

Audacious Epigone said...

Agnostic,

I didn't mean "player" as in pump n' dump, but in the industrial sense, like I might say of a new add-on--you understand the game and you're going to do well in it (ie, "He's going to be a player in this company.")