Saturday, April 12, 2008

Homies in the hood better than Crips, but both better than Crips alone?

When I saw a post at Mangan's with the humorous (but unwholesome) picture below, I thought of my dad:

Heh, no, not about his past or why he shouldn't quit his day job. The thought was more general, of libertarian-types like him who seem to subconsciously operate under the assumption that when poor Hispanic immigrants settle in the US they are replacing urban blacks.

The picture elucidates that psychology. Those guys don't look like the types my dad would want my sister to bring home, but they don't exactly make my hair stand on end, either.

Several of them are lard tubs, bringing to mind gourmands who live with their mothers and hang out with Amerind girls sporting tight jeans and aesthetically revolting muffin tops. They are dressed in clothes that are too big for them (which means the jerseys must be XXXXXXXLs), speak Spanglish (beginning most sentences with a drawn out "damn"), and act like true gang-banging BAMFs--on GTA3, that is. The Luigi mustaches and knee-high socks increase the silliness factor even more.

Instead of thinking Tookie, I'm thinking Lil Homies. I think you had to fight some of these characters in Earthbound.

In fact, these Lil Homies provide a great illustration of the cuddly-bear image Mangan's gangstas bring to my mind:

Better my sister show up with one of those goofballs than with 50 Cent, and if occasionally one of the goofball's homies knocks off one of 50's entourage, all the better.

I'm having a little fun, I know. But I wouldn't balk at getting in the ring with any of those guys, while Tookie in his prime would've made me soil myself and, if running like hell didn't work, pray for some yet-undiagnosed "Homer Simpson syndrome" of my own.

Compare Mangan's Surenos (though they don't look very southern to me) to a couple run-of-the-mill shots of some Crips:

I've spent an absurd amount of time around young black guys for being a white boy raised in the suburbs, and have had little contact with Hispanic hoodlums, but if I didn't know any of them, I'd rather stumble across Mangan's crew than those Bloods.

Of course the libertarian 'logic' mentioned early is fallacious. This isn't Greece in the 1920s. We're not talking about a population swap, but a population accretion. Underclass Hispanics add to the mix, and to the extent that they do assimilate, they assimilate towards black norms.

And it doesn't take much athletic prowess to unload from a car window on a guy standing twenty feet away on the sidewalk. I try to refrain from highlighting anecdotes and case studies as indicators of broader trends unless some important point is succinctly illustrated in doing so. But the murder of Jamiel Shaw (although at this point the motivation doesn't appear to be racial) draws attention to the 'ethnic cleansing' that is occuring in places like LA:
A south Los Angeles Latino street gang targeted African-American gang rivals and other blacks in a campaign of neighborhood "cleansing," federal prosecutors say. Alleged leaders and foot soldiers in the Hispanic gang Florencia 13, also called F13, are being arraigned this week on charges stemming from a pair of federal indictments that allege that the gang kept a tight grip on its turf by shooting members of a rival gang—and sometimes random black civilians. The "most disturbing aspect" of the federal charges was that "innocent citizens … ended up being shot simply because of the color of their skin," U.S. Attorney Thomas O'Brien told reporters in announcing the indictments.
Shaw was a black kid in the wrong place at the wrong time:
The parents of Jamiel Shaw Jr., a high school football star who was gunned down by a reputed gang member just blocks from his home, urged Los Angeles city leaders today to go after criminals who are in the country illegally.

Pedro Espinoza, 19, allegedly shot and killed the 17-year-old Los Angeles High School student on March 2 in the 2100 block of Fifth Avenue, not far from the Shaw family’s Arlington Heights home. According to police, the shooting occurred one day after Espinoza was released from county jail, where he was serving time for assault with a deadly weapon.

U.S. immigration officials believe Espinoza, a member of the 18th Street gang, may have been in the country illegally.
I'd love to see the WSJ op/ed board tackle this one. Perhaps they could decry Jamiel's father as a (black) nativist, a member of the 'vocal minority' that is up-in-arms over poor interior enforcement. Maybe they'll put a broken-home spin on it. Jamiel hadn't been living with his mother (although his parents are married). She was too busy fighting for the neocon cause over in Iraq at the time of her son's death!

Another aspect of the Shaw story deserves some attention:
Pedro was reported as being “uncooperative” when employees of the state attempted to ascertain exactly where he was born, claiming that he didn’t know where he was born or where his family was.

Pedro Espinoza served four months and walked out of jail, despite the fact that the day after his arrest, authorities had contacted a relative of Pedro’s who claimed that Mr. Espinoza had been smuggled into the United States illegally when he was 4 years old.
Trying to decipher how much criminal activity is perpetrated by illegal immigrants is murky business. I've given it some thought, in light of ICE's announcement that there will be stepped up deportations of criminal aliens going forward, initially totalling 200,000 per year, but now said to reach upwards of 450,000 removals annually.

A study by Ruben Rumbaut, popular among open border enthusiasts like Linda Chavez, claiming that the foreign-born are less criminally-prone than natives are didn't mesh with ICE's first announcement, and it certainly doesn't with the most recent one. Extrapolating from Rumbaut's estimates, we get about 100,000 total foreign-born prisoners in state or federal prisons. Since local jails hold about one-third of the nation's total prison population, we arrive at a ballpark estimate of 150,000 foreign-born prisoners (including legal residents) throughout the entire country. Yet ICE is going to deport as many as 450,000 of them!

Cases like Espinoza's are likely part of the reason for the discrepancies. The federal government, in its insouciance, assumed he was a US citizen, and presumably Rumbaut would have as well when conducting his study. Espinoza would have no reason to say otherwise. The pickings aren't as good down south, and unlike California, where whiterpeople fight with other whiterpeople to give a thug as much license to roam the streets as they can while his record builds, people at home will be weary of you, as this lugubrious NPR story explains:
El Salvador's rampant, gang-fueled crime is one of his biggest worries. Some of those gangbangers were kicked out of the United States, which is why Giron never tells people that he was deported.

"They think you're a criminal or a serious killer," he says. "And they don't trust you."
Under the terms of his deportation, it will be years before Giron can even apply to re-enter the United States. By that time, it's hard to say where he will feel he belongs.
Had ICE known he was from Mexico, he'd have been deported after being released from jail (for assault with a deadly weapon) the day before he gunned down Jamiel.


Sleep said...

Ahh, so youre an EarthBound fan! I was wondering about that old avatar of yours. Ive wanted to play the game since the day I saw it in Nintendo Power magazine back in 1994. And I have yet to do so.

agnostic said...

I don't think you'd have to worry about your daughter bringing home one of these guys -- maybe it's the majority of their genes being Amerindian, but they are not verbally oriented and cannot dance or sing (probably related to being more spatial -- like NE Asians).

Physically, they don't easily develop 250 lbs of muscle with little body fat. Their penis size on average is either at or below the White mean, since you don't see an overrepresentation of Mex-Ams among male porn stars.

So they have little seduction potential, given the large barrier to overcome (racial).

Now, if they were from parts of Latin America that had decent admixture from Africa, like Colombia and Brazil or the Caribbean, then it'd be a different story.

Audacious Epigone said...


Create an Amazon wish list including Earthbound (so you don't have to give out your address), and I'll buy it for you, honest. It's that enjoyable an experience :) There are various emulators like NESticle and the like that allow you to play on the PC, too.


Right, all characteristics that, in their positive forms, are cute rather than threatening or powerful. And the black cad/thug attractiveness factor makes Hispanics (again, relatively) seem all that much better.

Anonymous said...

Makes you wonder how Whites enslaved such a big mean surly race, doesn't it? Could it be that Whites weren't always so soft and pathetic as they act today? Or is it just that blacks aren't as tough as they try to appear?

Don't be so quick to judge a book by its cover. As any wrestler can tell you, some of the meanest looking guys go down easy, while some average-looking guy can wipe the mat with you.

John S. Bolton said...

Not really on topic, but young guys in KC have an opportunity this spring:
..."now through May 4.

Be a part of the national effort to end race preferences in college admissions, contracting, and public employment while earning money.

The MCRI will pay petition circulators $1,000 plus per week.

Telephone: (314) 963 7474."
found on View From The Right

Sleep said...

Wow, thanks. No I dont want a literal EarthBound cartridge. I've met people who say that playing an SNES game on an actual SNES is the only way to experience it, but I disagree. I have an emulator. I also have a friend who has the game and could send it to me, but I havent bothered to ask him for it yet ... I dont really need to add a new item to my list of addictions. But thank you.

Audacious Epigone said...


I know the cover isn't everyting. I became classroom friends with an unassuming, slightly nerdy looking white guy in my calcII course who taught Chun Kuk Do. When we first became acquainted, he told me he'd just returned from Brazil where he'd done some training with Chuck Norris. It took about five seconds of shadow play one day during a break to make it crystal clear to me that he'd be able to kill me five times before I hit the ground. I remember his hand being held between my trap and my neck so with lightning speed and precision.

Generally, I've found guys with low centers of gravity and slight pigeon-toes can be especially surprising (whereas lanky and slough footed types tend to be pretty underwhelming).

But the exception tends to prove, not disprove, the rule. Most people aren't trained in any kind of combat, including gangbangers. What they look like tells you a lot about what they're capable of--not that it matters all that much when we're considering drive-bys. And blacks are, as a group, more dangerous than Hispanics are. Anyway, it's perception that I'm focusing on in the post.

agnostic said...

And on the topic of "muffin top" jeans -- this is another thing that East Coasters don't really get until they spend time out here (mountain time zone in my case). I mean, where all the fine Latin girls at?

I've been spoiled by being surrounded by Colombians in the DC area and Rhode Island, with Caribbeans in RI as well.

Quick reality check: how many Miss Universe winners are from Mexico or other Amerind Central American country, vs. how many from Venezuela and Colombia plus the Caribbean? Hell, Puerto Rico alone dominates the competition!

Anonymous said...

IM gonna go Old Testament and point out:

"There is strength in numbers"

Time is on the Hispanics side, they will have more numbers.

Anonymous said...

Time is on the Hispanics side, they will have more numbers.

Only if whites(or white elites?) let them.

Audacious Epigone said...


I didn't know off-hand, but it looks like two: Lupita Jones, from Mexico, whose last name is obviously very English, although she looks ethnically Spanish with maybe some Lebanese or 'Moor' thrown in; and Justine Pasek from Panama, who looks (and considering the name) either Russian or from maybe from somewhere in the Caucesus (Jones might have some Amerindian in her, but Pasek doesn't look like she has a drop).

I'm guilty of being parochial at the other end, having lived throughout the Midwest and on the West coast but never East of the Mississippi--smoking Latinas are a very rare sight.


I'll go with another bit of OT, from Psalms:

"The meek shall inherit the earth."

For the second anon, maybe from the irredentist Hispanic Catholic's point of view, the NT:

"A kingdom divided cannot stand."

Jesus was referencing Satan, and the gringos are divided.

Audacious Epigone said...

Justine Pasek was born in Ukraine, according to her Wikipedia entry.

agnostic said...

Hahaha, yeah, no I already knew about them -- it was rhetorical. I mean, look who you're talking to here. ;)

Pasek's father is a Polish software engineer, and her mother is a Panamanian housewife. She was studying to be a civil engineer at some point, iirc.

Audacious Epigone said...


I know you knew. I just wanted to make it clear that your level of erudition on the subject far surpasses my own. That is, I failed the reality check pop quiz, but here's the answer for everyone else anyway!

scottynx said...

Even taking Ruben Rumbaut's study at face value, it is insane to view it as an arguement for open borders. The study found 8x higher incarceration rates going from the mexican immigrant generation to their children, going from well below the non-hispanic white incarceration rates to well above it, to an extent that native born hispanics raise the national incarceration rate. For every single asian and latin american group except for Philipinos and Chinese, Rumbaut found that incarceration rates in their native born members were higher than the non-hispanic white rate.

I don't understand the logic on how that points to open-borders being good for US incarceration rates. It seems to require the magical thinking of just assuming away any connection between the existence of immigrants and the existence of their descenendants.

Audacious Epigone said...


Right. I'm skeptical of Rumbaut's numbers for the reasons mentioned in the body of the post, but at best it shows that the offspring of NAM immigrants assimilate towards the criminal behavior of the black underclass.

Anonymous said...

man fuck cripz and if yah got a prblem with dat meet me at lauderdale lakes florida

Anonymous said...

Well, a lot of people asks Me WHY on Earth I am with these Gs, but what I would be able to say is, they such a nice boys, ones You can train and they have great potential. Love boys of Kansas City, big hug to all of 'em, My kids I love so much and I wanna try to help as much as I can.
Why I am especially Proud of Them all is, because They are willing to get even more education and understanding and be better people(so they always very glad if someone gives it to 'em) and still be loyal to their gangs.
Love My Boys and very proud of 'em. Well, I know, My Mother would be not willing to see any of 'em with Me, but as long as She knows My Crip-Boy I love so much(haha, another story of Wars of the Roses when someone loves His/Her Enemy, lol)and don't know He belongs to gang and never saw Him in Bandanas, well, She not against it, and, lucky Me, My Blood-Brothers not too-against My Love to theor Enemy(just one warning: dat one FULL ENOUGH, I must keep away from Cribs, lol)...People complains too much but does nothing about to prevent these gang-crimes and so on. In fact, if parents would be more responsible about getting babies and everything, We would never have any gangs nor too many criminals. It is all parent's fault, You can disagree, but just because You don't wanna open Your eyes to see the truth.